Author: robbie_xie

they couldn't care less   [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2014-3-6 22:02:57 |Display all floors
This post was edited by robbie_xie at 2014-3-6 22:46
Revolutionar Post time: 2014-3-6 19:10
I give you an example which I think is relevant.

There is a state in  Malaysia called Kelantan. T ...

nice to know the story of the Kelantanese in Malaysia.

but how does that support your claim, to quote, "Unfortunately, for decades, the government has looked at the Uighers as enemies of State to be controlled", if that is truly the point you want to make.

apart from the story in Malaysia, which is logically more irrelevant to your claim I quote above than you're willing to admit it, all you seem to have presented is a series of assertions. they are in a way all the would-be conclusions that await support of evidence, by which I mean something much less subjective.

if one wants the other to accept his or her point, it's impossible without presenting hard facts that are relevant, assuming that both have the integrity to respect facts. otherwise all this will turn into nothing but finger-pointing which is ubiquitous in this forum, unless that's what you intended.

so I will walk through your assertions, raising my questions, and hopefully you will give me sensible answers.

before that, I'd like to point out you may have misconception of the word "Chinese" because you obviously dichotomize the Hui people aganist the 'Chinese'.

Chinese is a more of a term of nationality than one of ethnical identity.

I concede that there are people, based on my experience some tibetans, who are not willing to identify them as Chinese. the reason I assume (I never asked them why) is because they also perceive the term Chinese as one of ethnical indentify referring solely to the Han people.

but I cannot second your dichotomy of the Hui people against the 'Chinese' in a nationality sense. and I am confident that the majority of Hui people, if not all, will identify them as Chinese in a nationality sense. the same is true with most of the other minority ethnic groups in China: the Man people, the Mongolians in China, the Koreans in China, the Zhuang people, the Miao people, the Yi people, the Bai people, the Qiang people, the Buyi people, the Tujia people, and so on. this is because their life has been intertwined with that of the Han people to such an extent that a unity of national identity has been established. there seems to be a rule that the more proximity of their lives to the Han, the more consensus in national identity. in fact, in places where the Tibetans co-exist with the Han, the Qiang, the Yi in Sichuan province, these four people simply adopt the Sichuan dialect as their common language several hundred years ago, the same thing also happens at places in Gansu and Qinghai where different peoples congregate. One thing that needs to be noted is that the common dialect they have adopted is not solely from the Han people, as has always been misunderstood; instead it's the common cultural trait of all people who live there. even such integration as is described above does not entail the loss of one's own cultural uniqueness; for example, the only people in China that have no traditional attire of their own is in fact the Han people, which is as ironic as it is true. the Han people simply abandoned their dressing traditions willingly or forcedly when the Man people established regime in China over 3 and a half century ago. and now, believe it or not, the Han people are essentially the most westernized group in China in both lifestyle and culture.

perhaps people from real lives will strengthen my position. there are many celebrities in China who are from minority ethnic groups. they would no doubt identify them as Chinese while at the same time refuse to acknowledge they are Han people. Is there a problem? Not at all! Jike Junyi(whose english name is Summer) is from the Yi minority group, Han Hong is a Tibetan, and my favorite female singer Yang Wei Linghua from the band Phoenix Legend is a mongolian in ethnic identity, and Huo Zun, a rising star famous for his traditional Chinese style singing, is a Man people.

Now you can do research to see if your dichotomy is well grounded. As long as there is no misunderstanding or manipulation in the communication conducted, I'm sure you will have a new outlook. I don't expect you to bear good intentions, but at least be as neutral as possible if you want to get closer to something more real. but if you already close your mind off other possibilities, then I suppose there's nothing I can do.

Now my questions or doubts to your statements

"The Chinese must look at the Uighers the same way they look at the Huis"

How do the Chinese of other ethnic groups look at both the Uigher people and the Huis?
What has made you believe that's how?
Is the evidence you've collected sufficient to support your position?
How is the evidence obtained? directly from your experience or indirectly from other sources?
Is the evidence credible if it's obtained indirectly?
How representative is your evidence if it's obtained from your direct experiences, assuming you are telling the truth?
Is there any possibility of misunderstanding?

"Unfortunately, for decades, the government has looked at the Uighers as enemies of State to be controlled. "

What has made you think the Chinese government take the Uighers as enemies?
Is the evidence you've collected sufficient to support your position?
How is the evidence obtained? directly from your experience or indirectly from other sources?
Is the evidence credible if it's obtained indirectly?
How representative is your evidence if it's obtained from your direct experiences, assuming you are telling the truth?
Is there any possibility of misunderstanding?

If it matters (and I think it does), I have always enjoyed being with the Hui people. I'm a patron of their noodle restaurant. and I, too, think they are clean (I wouldn't go as far as you did because I haven't met all the other minority groups in China). actually the reason why I enjoy dining in their's is because I feel more sure the food is cleaner than that in other restanrants.

And one of friend in college, who was born on exactly the same day the same year as me, is a Hui. he's very talented in learning languages and working with the public, and he now works in Shanghai, as a conslutant that gives other companies advice on how to improve their public image. last year he just got married with a Han Chinese girl. their wedding ceremony abided by the Muslin rules, no drinking, no pork, and parents from both families were happy. if it wasn't for protecting his privacy, I would have posted their wedding pictures.

I never even think to overlook the differences among human races, but I will not stand by and allow some people to use differences as the reason for segregations, as long as the integration is mutually voluntary, or as a means to deliberately create confrontations among society that would otherwise have been non-existent.



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Post time 2014-3-7 02:53:03 |Display all floors
This post was edited by 468259058 at 2014-3-7 02:56
Revolutionar Post time: 2014-3-6 19:10
I give you an example which I think is relevant.

There is a state in  Malaysia called Kelantan. T ...


Look at the Huis of China. They have been around for hundreds of years. They are some of the cleanest , best friendliest  people you can see in Beijing.
+++++++++++++++++
1. cleanest? I don't think so.
Many muslims don't use the same bowl, basin, etc, with those people who don't believe in Islam. Is it clean?
Muslim's restaurants are not clean just like Han Chinese restaurants. I think restaurants proving western food are generally cleanest in China. Of couse Western food in those restaurants are also the most expensive.

2. Best friendly?
Let us open history books. Chiristains killed huge amount of Chinese. Chinese (including Hui Chinese) killed many Christians (including Chinese Christians) in the following boxer movement of 1900s.
The killings took place in Beijing.
our life is full of sunshine

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Post time 2014-3-7 06:29:06 |Display all floors
468259058 Post time: 2014-3-7 02:53
Look at the Huis of China. They have been around for hundreds of years. They are some of the clean ...

To learn Chinese history, especially those related with bloodshed is a standard requirement to work as a provocator-spy in your organization?

Btw, you haven't told me how many bucks you allocated to buy me if I agree to sink with you.

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Post time 2014-3-9 05:18:07 |Display all floors
longzhou Post time: 2014-3-4 03:25
Well written. Food for the brain. Thanks!

I never get to say 'thank you' for your compliment on my writing.

sorry for that, hope it's not too late.

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Post time 2014-5-19 02:05:58 |Display all floors
We, the USA, are a country of people who immigrate here from other countries seeking freedoms. Freedom to speak, relegion and live. "Life, liberty and the persuit of happiness". This began in 1776. Before that we were a lawless country and slaughtering savages was the normal, alot like Gengis Kahn's era in China.  However, in 1940 when the Japanese invaders were raping and beheading the Chinese people at will, along came 300 American pilots and 100 American P-40 aircraft and to quote a Chinese farmer "brought fear into the eyes of the Japanese pilots"  The Flying Tigers under command of Col. Chenault, drove the butchering Japan back north with their tail between their legs and made the bombing of the Chinese people stop.  I know, my uncle was there. I have been to China 4 times and I love the Chinese people and the older and wiser Chinese people love Americans because they remember who came to help them when China was soon to be speaking Japanese.  I married a Chinese lady whose mother was interned to Japanese sexual slavery for 3 years, 6-8 Japanese men a day she was taken bay and she died at 84 with a hatred of the Japanese people and a love for the American people who freed her from a nightmare.  I ask, before you slam the USA (western world), realise that the USA, admittedly not perfect, quickly come to peoples assistance when needed to oppose tyrantical governments.  NOT once has America kept any piece of land they have faught over and won. We beat Japan and still Japan has their government, we beat Germany, Germany still exists. the only land we ask for is the amount on land it takes to bury our dead.  When asked for his passport while travelling to France, my father told the French agent, "the last time in 1944 when I came to France I did not see any Frenchman around to show my passport to." Hence my point.

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Post time 2014-5-19 02:55:41 |Display all floors
first the western world is the epitome of double-standard. no sane men would ever subscribe to this type of insolence.



This is a very good point robbie

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Post time 2014-5-19 02:57:17 |Display all floors
MisterPanda Post time: 2014-3-4 18:35
Once again, by West a poster means USA.

Poland is in the West, what did they have to do with the sl ...

When you call a big dog, its usually meant the Alsatian.

What's your point?

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