Author: abramicus

SOUTH SEA ISLANDS HAVE BEEN PART OF CHINA FOR CENTURIES BEFORE THE 9-DASH MAP.   [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2012-12-17 08:52:56 |Display all floors
This post was edited by abramicus at 2012-12-17 08:55

THE NINE-DASH LINE IS LIKE TRAFFIC SIGNS THAT MARK THE LOCATION OF THE ROAD, CHINA'S SOUTH CHINA SEA ISLANDS, WHICH HAVE BEEN PART OF CHINA, NOT SINCE THE MARKERS WERE PLACED IN 1947 BY THE R.O.C., BUT SINCE THE YUAN DYNASTY WHEN THEY WERE DISCOVERED, SURVEYED AND OWNED BY CHINA.

THE ARGUMENTS AGAINST THE 9-DASH LINE IS LIKE A THIEVING LAND-GRABBER CLAIMING THAT THE MARKERS THE OWNER PLACED ON HIS LAND ARE MUCH MORE RECENT THAN HIS ORIGINAL TITLE TO THE LAND.

OF COURSE, THE MARKERS ARE MORE RECENT THAN THE ORIGINAL TITLE.   DUH?

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Post time 2012-12-17 11:16:00 |Display all floors
abramicus Post time: 2012-12-17 08:46
Yasawakic has nothing to offer but shit.  Seneca does not know how to read, "The 9-dash line was dra ...

The ROC origionally made an 11 dash line map. Mao republished this with 9 dashes but it is mostly identical. I wonder what reaction China would make if European powers started claiming seas on the basis of historical sovereignty.
They would look something like this:
I may disagree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - Voltaire

The secret of freedom lies in educating people, whereas the secret of tyranny is in keeping them
ignora

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Post time 2012-12-17 15:33:30 |Display all floors
This post was edited by abramicus at 2012-12-17 15:37

Not all lines are equal.  Anyone can put dots and dashes, but only China can prove its historical sovereignty over the islands inside the dashes.  Your argument goes back to the false allegation that China arbitrarily placed its dashes around islands it found oil under in the past fifty years.  That is untrue.  The islands included within the 9-dashes were part of China for five centuries or more before the 9-dashes were placed around them.  China's 9-dash line is the RESULT, not the reason, of the islands within being Chinese sovereign territory for more than 500 years.

China's 9-dashes are based on historic and continuous sovereignty to the present.  Your dashes are well, works of art.

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Post time 2012-12-17 16:08:24 |Display all floors
This post was edited by abramicus at 2012-12-17 16:10

There is nothing wrong or improper in drawing a line around the property you already own.  This is the 9-dash line.

It is another matter for greedy pirates and slave-traders to draw a line around property that they intend to own.  These are all the other lines.

Three lines in the ocean,

Through the ripples how they shine.  

Just one line will be proven,
The one and only 9-dash line.



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Post time 2012-12-17 19:48:30 |Display all floors
abramicus,

if you insist on ancient historical claims (if true or not) you should consider, that it could backfire on China. In such a case China has to give up on Taiwan. Taiwan was aquired by China only in the late 16th century and lost again to Japan some 150 years ago. Just read:

In 1662, Koxinga (Zheng Cheng-gong), a loyalist of the Ming Dynasty, which had lost control of mainland China in 1644, defeated the Dutch and established a base of operations on the island. Zheng's forces were later defeated by the Qing Dynasty in 1683. From then, parts of Taiwan became increasingly integrated into the Qing Dynasty before it ceded the island, along with Penghu, to the Empire of Japan in 1895, following the First Sino-Japanese War. Taiwan produced rice and sugar to be exported to the Empire of Japan, and also served as a base for the Japanese colonial expansion into Southeast Asia and the Pacific during World War II. Japanese imperial education was implemented in Taiwan and many Taiwanese also fought for Japan during the war.
It is indeed very practical that the party is  judge, legislator, head of the army, executor  and  publisher  all in one in China.

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Post time 2012-12-18 13:12:58 |Display all floors
This post was edited by abramicus at 2012-12-18 13:14

Zheng Cheng-gong is a Ming patriot who refused to bow to the Qing dynasty, which at that time consisted mainly of the Chinese from Manchuria, later absorbed into the Chinese nationality practically completely.  The Manchurians were those living in modern Liaoning, right next door to Beijing, which is located in Hebei province, a stone's throw from each other.  The current separatists are not seeking separation on the basis of Zheng Cheng-gong, FYI, because to do so means Taiwan is a part of the Ming territory, which then dates back even further.  The current separatists are seeking independence on the basis of their having been a colony of Japan since 1895, up to 1945, and thus, in their case, history works in favor of China, rather than against it.  The historical artifacts on Taiwan date back even earlier than Ming dynasty, but the major emigration from the mainland to Tawan was in the Ming period.

By the way, we do not know how true it is, but it is certainly plausible that Zheng Cheng Gong (Koxinga to the Spanish) who tried to invade Manila, probably had extensive contacts with the natives of northern Luzon that is right next door to Kaohsiung port.  It was rumored that your ex-President Marcos may have descended from one of his generals or from Zheng Chenggong himself by a complex linearge, that of course, is not verifiable today.  Certainly, if his mannerisms are examined, he has the alpha male personality that the leader of a rebel naval force, stronger than the Dutch and the Qing navies, would need to have to brave the dangers and establish what amounted to an autonomous region in Taiwan.

But Koxinga, or Zheng Chenggong, is to his last breath, documented fully, to be a Ming patriot, and would consider Taiwan a part of the Ming China.



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Post time 2012-12-18 13:53:12 |Display all floors
VIETNAM CANNOT EVER DISENTANGLE ITS CLAIMS OF SOVEREIGNTY FROM CHINA BECAUSE IT WAS PART OF CHNA FOR 1,100 YEARS (111 BC TO 938 AD) AND AGAIN FROM 1407-1427 AD.

This is why the sovereignty that Vietnam claims over many of the South China Sea islands were exercised by them as either a province or a vassal state of China, under the umbrella of Chinese sovereignty.  Wanting to separate from China, Vietnam wanted to take with it the islands that belonged to their mother country, China, but their claims only prove the opposite, which is that their claims of sovereignty actually reinforced the fact that they used these islands as subjects of China in the past, which denies them the right to use these islands as their real owners.  A servant using the master's boat does not own the boat just because he no longer wants to be his servant.  The boat still belongs to his master.  Thus, the South China Sea islands that the Vietnamese refer to profusely as being part of Vietnam are proven by these very same records to actually be part of China instead.

Highly relevant to these pseudo-claims of sovereignty of the Vietnamese of today is the fact that Vietnam was last conquered by China in the Ming Dynyasty, which highlights the fact that its claims of sovereignty dating earlier than this are subject to doubt, since Vietnam, as late as 1407-1427, including all its claimed islands in the South China Sea, belonged to China's sovereign territory.

The only way for modern Vietnam to "regain its sovereignty" over the South China Sea islands is to become once again a part of China, or a vassal state of China, enjoying its "sovereignty" by proxy with authorization from the Chinese government, which was the basis for its claims of sovereignty over these islands to begin with.  In fact, if Vietnam takes the militarist approach to taking over the South China Sea islands, especially the Paracel and Spratly islands, then it will end up being conquered anew by China in the not too distant future.  China can field an army ten times larger than the Vietnamese army if it makes up its mind to "Pacify the South", reclaiming Vietnam as the "Annam Province of China" once again.




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