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Is leader going to help the poor American? [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2012-8-31 04:27:38 |Display all floors
This post was edited by LCSULLA at 2012-8-31 05:44
Everynowhere Post time: 2012-8-29 17:16
The US, like any developed country, would not deport a corrupt Chinese official to China as he wou ...

Lichtenstein afaik also gives residence to former african dictators, if the price is right.
Switzerland could also always say screw you to the EU preassure under said condition.
At least they could if you guys finally annexed Germany.
That would give you sufficent size to stand up to far more outside preassure.

Most of all,
you missed my point.
I was referring to just the same as you Swiss and the Lichtensteiners want from, ...well anyone who can offer it:
Just the Money.
The Crooks can go see for themselves wherever they may hide,
as long as the money is safely stored in Europe.
Germany is working too good together with china,
so I reckon even better than the money being stored in germany,
is it being stored in switzerland, and well invested by swiss into the german industries.

Who cares about whatever happens in the crook official afterwards,
would we even want him not to be executed as long as the capital can stay here?
You see?
您买象牙 - 您杀了大象!
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNjU1Nzg0NDky.html - “用现代文明标准比划中国人,是严重的种族歧视行为。”
„Ich ficke wo, wen, und wann ich will, hast du mich verstanden. Auch du könntest ficken, aber du kannst es ja gar nicht, deine deutsche Genauigkeit... verbietet es dir“. Jean-Claude Juncker

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Post time 2012-8-31 04:50:57 |Display all floors
I'd offer the Chinese half the money back if i could go home with impunity.

Well, half is better than nothing
Your own mind is a sacred enclosure into which nothing harmful can enter except by your permission. Arnold Bennett

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Post time 2012-9-1 07:40:21 |Display all floors
Most of all,
you missed my point.
I was referring to just the same as you Swiss and the Lichtensteiners want from, ...well anyone who can offer it:
Just the Money.
The Crooks can go see for themselves wherever they may hide,
as long as the money is safely stored in Europe.
Germany is working too good together with china,
so I reckon even better than the money being stored in germany,
is it being stored in switzerland, and well invested by swiss into the german industries.


But then again, you have those pesky anti-money-laundring laws in Switzerland that would give China the ability to get the money that corrupt officials stole back - whilst you won't have this issue in Delaware.

So if a corrupt official moved to Switzerland, Chinese authorities might just file a formal claim to their Swiss counterparts and the money would be wired back to China. Swiss laws only protect data - not crimes under Swiss law. That's the reason why most Chinese officials move to the US (as you can confirm by taking the migration statistics into account).

Swiss laws are great for privacy - but not if you're a refugee fleeing from your past crimes in another country. If you are in that situation, better consider France (if you can obtain French citizenship or marry a French wife) or the USA (if you can obtain a Greencard), as these countries won't deport neither you nor your money to a foreign, not-allied country.

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Post time 2012-9-1 10:57:21 |Display all floors
Everynowhere Post time: 2012-9-1 07:40
But then again, you have those pesky anti-money-laundring laws in Switzerland that would give Chin ...

Dammit,
is there anything you guys are good for for somebody with less than legit intentions then?
Not doing anything to live up to the crook reputation?

How about annexing Germany for a change?
Last Swiss Invasion was even just into a country that relies on Switzerland for Defence,
how about a bigger challenge next time?
(Although I doubt too many would even resist a swiss Invasion here,
at least I wouldn't, if they drafted me.)

您买象牙 - 您杀了大象!
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNjU1Nzg0NDky.html - “用现代文明标准比划中国人,是严重的种族歧视行为。”
„Ich ficke wo, wen, und wann ich will, hast du mich verstanden. Auch du könntest ficken, aber du kannst es ja gar nicht, deine deutsche Genauigkeit... verbietet es dir“. Jean-Claude Juncker

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Post time 2012-9-1 18:10:57 |Display all floors
is there anything you guys are good for for somebody with less than legit intentions then?
Not doing anything to live up to the crook reputation?


Yea - especially in the IT service area. Swiss privacy laws make it very difficult for prosecutors to gain access to data stored in servers, thus allowing orgainzations like wikileaks to store and publish their data (which is considered illegal by some) without being traced back to their origin for a very long time.

Of course, one might also publish or store other half-illegal content - investigators actually only got the power to prosecute pedophiles immediately. That's for instance the reason why organizations like rapidshare or google host most of their data in Switzerland.

How about annexing Germany for a change?


You'd have to change the Swiss constitution - currently, the people in the annected german in question as well as the people in Switzerland would have to agree on the merger in a painfully delicate referendum.

The split of the canton of berne and the canton of jura in 1979 might serve you as an example here. The law makers were forced by the constitution to allow each and every village along the border to decide which canton they want to belong to, leading to hundreds of referendums and an increadible amount of paper work. Note that this was just an issue within national borders!
Considering the much vaster influence of relocating Swiss national borders, one can hardly imagine the extent of political and legal work required to finalise such an endeavour, not to mention the direct and indirect costs involved... Thus I doubt the willingness of the Swiss people to wager such a reckless attempt, especially consdering the fact that they won't actually gain much even if they do succeed.

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Post time 2012-9-1 21:07:40 |Display all floors
You have to admit that the Switzer government had arrogantly and smirkingly REFUSED to collaborate with the international community over how to handle dirty money and its illegitimate owners. It took a few scandals involving WESTERN COUNTRIES for the Switzers to realise they are crooks and must behave - or will face international opprobrium!

For example the U.S. government prevailed in Bern in the matter of Jewish money on Switzer banks from the Nazi period. The banks buckled under and restituted money. It was the New York mayor, Mr Giuliani, who caused the Switzer banks to finally own up and stop playing fools!

Then they ran into the next grenade lobbed at them from Uncle Sam's arsenal: it was over tax evasions. I was scandalised to learn the Switzer taxpayers (!!!) had to  foot an enormous bill of U.S. yoyo 70 billion (or was it 70 billion Francs?) to the UBS to tide the bank over the cash-strapped situation into which this scandal plunged it. Then the Europeans came knocking on the door over tax dodgers from their own countries hiding their savings on Switzer banks ... The Switzers arrogantly said "It is no crime to put German money on our bank accounts ... we don't need to reveal the names of YOUR citizens who do this!"

Finally I learnt (two days ago!) that the Bern government has been negotiating with ATHENS a tax revenue repatriation deal involving Greek billionaires who have parked their ill-gotten money on Switzer banks ...

The Switzer government has stooped to every depth to accommodate its criminal banking system over the past century or so! It is high time they fell out of the tree tops and crashed to the same floor where everybody else is!


I think you're mixing up two issues here.
The first is jewish money, the second is privacy laws.

As for the first one, we must analyze the history more thoroughly:
When the Nazis prosecuted and killed jews, many jews put their money in Swiss accounts to hide it from the Nazis (which was possible due to the extensive privacy laws, which I will talk about in the second paragraph below). However, some of those jews were nevertheless caught and killed by the Nazis, leaving considerable amounts of money on their Swiss bank accounts. Now usually, if somebody dies, the heirs can take the death certificate and retrieve those deposits from bank accounts. However, the Nazis didn't issue any death certificate, so the heirs couldn't prove that their ancestors were death, which rendered them unable to get their money back - especially if the respective individual put his or her money on a number account (which were perfectly anonymous in the 1930ies and 1940ies), so it was not even possible for the heirs to prove that they were related to the (unknown) acount owner.

So the World Jewish Congress (which was then, by the way, a Swiss organization founded in Geneva), wanted to get the money back from all jews. This, of course, meant that the involved banks had to dissolve anonymous accounts without being able to tell whether or not the owners are jewish and dead. The lawsuit then envolved around the following questions:
1) How much of the money stored in old, unused anonymous accounts belongs to jews?
2) Does an organization like the World Jewish Congress have the right to take the money that actually belongs to individuals?

However, the lawsuit was led under US law - thus, neither Swiss law nor the Swiss government were involved. Only a privately owned Swiss bank at this stage.

Now unfortunately, it was a congress election year and US politicians got envolved and turned it into a public issue, accusing Switzerland of not being tough enough on the Germans and thereby prolonging the war. This was, however, just a sideline and resulted in a joint historical commission which analyzed whether the war was or was not prolonged by Switzerland. The subsequent report (which was of course published after the congress elctions were over in the US) found that Switzerland did not prolong the war and the according accusations were groundless (which was to be expected, considering the small size of Switzerland).

The lawsuit ended with UBS paying 1,25 billion US-Dollars to the USA (not israel), which is in my point of view another scandal. The lawful heirs of the holocaust victims never saw one franc. Israel never got anything either. All money was sent to New York.
However, a procedure for processing claims of anonymous accounts had been established by UBS afterwards, repaying another 450 million Dollars to individuals.


Now let's talk about the second issue: Privacy laws.
Swiss laws prevent authorities (national and foreign) from accessing corporate data without search warrant. A search warrant is, like in most countries, issued only if there is an ongoing investigation against a certain individual. This law allowed a few criminals to hide part their incomes from their governments and avoid taxes - and the question now is whether privacy (thus, the individual) or taxes (thus, the government) are more important.

Here is striking cultural difference between Germany in Switzerland. Even in history, the Germans preferred a powerful government with perfect control over people, while the Swiss have always been defending individual freed0m and direct dem0cracy. During the Nazi regime, the Swiss had to decide whether they want to protect the privacy of the people who deposit their money and data in Switzerland, or whether they should cooperate with Hitler. Switzerland partly gave in, cooperated with Hitler on some issues and it turned out to be a huge mistake.

So 60 years later, the German government wants once again to gain access to the all the data of its citizens. Now, the Swiss Banks and IT companies could either deliver the data to Germany if privacy laws are loosened - or they could stand strong against the new storm and don't make the same mistake like 60 years ago.

It's hard to say which culture is right - we'll never know for sure whether individualism or centralism is better. But personally, I would not want my government to know everything about me.
If I were to suggest a solution, it would be to make a referendum on the law in Germany - if the German people want that their government gets their data, so be it. If not, the government would have to accept this then too.

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Post time 2012-9-2 09:11:52 |Display all floors
Everynowhere Post time: 2012-9-1 21:07
I think you're mixing up two issues here.
The first is jewish money, the second is privacy laws.

yeah, nah,
seneca's being a Cu-nt.

In terms of combatting tax evasion and collecting taxes,
switzerland is actually offering more than any other country would do.

What is refused, is general point blank privacy intrusions,
intrusions into privacy though, that are far less helpful in terms of fighting tax evasion and crime,
than anything that swiss authorities are willing to offer to other countries.

watch a recent show of Guenther Jauch's Talkshow on topic for further information,
specifically what the swiss ambassador in berlin and a senior figure of the fdp had a chance to say.

Then wach the demagogic agressive war rethorics of the financial secretary of the state of north-rhine westfailure,
the biggest state of Germany,
and stil my home state as according to my hardcover passports,
to see what I'm really having a beef with.
And why I'm seeing causu belli for a swiss invasion.
Hear that Seneca?

What switzerland is actually putting on offer in terms of actually fighting tax evasion and crime is more than anything else would,
just not general indiscriminate suspicion on anyone.
And they offer that on anyone.
They just don't offer indiscriminate general surveilance on anyone based on desire for controll.

And the Expactation of a general application of german udicial priorities on souvereign neighbours is something,
that brings up quite uncomfortable memories to times that neither would I like to return to,
nor do I hope for the sake of the SPD to return to.

So just a quick and dirty swiss invasion by the swiss,
and removal of such politicians, for this whole mess to finally get over.

您买象牙 - 您杀了大象!
http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNjU1Nzg0NDky.html - “用现代文明标准比划中国人,是严重的种族歧视行为。”
„Ich ficke wo, wen, und wann ich will, hast du mich verstanden. Auch du könntest ficken, aber du kannst es ja gar nicht, deine deutsche Genauigkeit... verbietet es dir“. Jean-Claude Juncker

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