Author: liuyedao

Foreign job-seekers flock into China   [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2012-4-23 13:20:38 |Display all floors
This and CCTV9 are the only media I engage with.

What I say on this forum comes from my observations after 12 years of living here.

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Post time 2012-4-24 00:26:58 |Display all floors
Maybe I ask snakey a difficult but yet not too complicated question.

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Post time 2012-4-26 00:35:06 |Display all floors
adolphus Post time: 2012-4-22 00:22
I agree with you talking negatively about your own country and leaders is a right, but when you do ...

I agree with you that it is always tricky to complain about a country that is not ours. I just wish sometimes people would realize we just want to make life better for everybody, not only for foreigners.

Befre I get flamed or this comment, I have a very simple example. There is a spot in my compound where it is forbidden to park, except for law enforcement and fire brigade. Everyday some chinese people park their cars there and, as a result, part of the pavement is now destroyed. When I complained about it, the management told me this is chinese way and I should accept chinese culture. It is not my country but it is my investment (if the compound looks bad my apartment will lose its value). I also pay my taxes in China. I contribute to society. To follow up on your metaphor, I feel I contribute to build the house but I do not get the same rights as the other builders. I am not asking to vote, should I want to vote I would seek chinese citizenship, I am just asking for the right to point out things that do not go well.

If a chinese tells another chinese he shouldn't smoke in the subway, he's a civilized man. If a foreigner tells a chinese he shouldn't smoke in the subway, then he will be told to go back to his country.

As a foreigner in China I always respect Chinese law. I have to say I am much more vertuous this way in China than I am in France. But Chinese law does grant me freedom of speech. Personally I feel that if everyone was respecting the law as it is written now, then there would be close to no problem in China.
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Post time 2012-4-26 01:29:36 |Display all floors
MisterPanda Post time: 2012-4-26 00:35
I agree with you that it is always tricky to complain about a country that is not ours. I just wis ...

Thank you for your post and the 'chuckle' that it gave me, in fact I am still 'chuckling' as I write. I obviously have a home country and have the same disapointments with that place as many of my own ethnicity. When travelling abroad which I have done many times, I found things that I regarded as odd, strange or even just plain extraordinary and I was a complainer, especially and including France. However, in my first few visits to China there were many things which I could not completely fathom and in talking to expats who lived in China many said the same thing when these ideas were discussed, and that was 'TIC'. To which I asked, "what does that mean" and the expats said, "This is China". Now, what they were telling me in a nutshell was that if you venture outside of your own patch then you cannot expect it to live up to the expectations of your own original domicile, but rather accept the difference. If you can complain in your own world, then why would find a different world any better or worse? Whilst I can actually empathize with what you say, I see myself thinking of the idea 'TIC' and asking why you would feel that it should change in some way to suit the ideals that you brought with you. I do hope that this changes for you and you enjoy your time in China.

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Post time 2012-4-26 02:40:43 |Display all floors
adolphus Post time: 2012-4-26 01:29
Thank you for your post and the 'chuckle' that it gave me, in fact I am still 'chuckling' as I wri ...
Whilst I can actually empathize with what you say, I see myself thinking of the idea 'TIC' and asking why you would feel that it should change in some way to suit the ideals that you brought with you. I do hope that this changes for you and you enjoy your time in China.


It's not ideals that I brought with me, I'm talking about Chinese law !

As I mentioned, I do not expect China to be France (or any other country), why would I leave in the first place ? I also find that the TIC mentality is very paternalist kinda like saying "well, boys will be boys...". Do you think Mao started a revolution thinking "this is China ?". He thought "this sucks, we need to change it !".

As for me, I do not think I am qualified to ask for a change (or not) in China. As you mentioned I'm just a guest here. I just wish they would respect the rules they set in their own home. I've been driving in China for 7 years and I can tell you very few chinese respect traffic rules. Is it asking for too much to ask for people to respect traffic regulations ?

I'm not one of these foreigners complaining that Chinese can't speak english, I really don't care about that, they are a sovereign country, I'm one of these foreigners wishing all chinese, rich or poor, would respect the law, just the law.
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Post time 2012-4-26 03:09:37 |Display all floors
MisterPanda Post time: 2012-4-26 02:40
It's not ideals that I brought with me, I'm talking about Chinese law !

As I mentioned, I do no ...

Well they do not because they do not have to. Maybe and just maybe they do not inflict the minimal laws so that people do not have to live in a world of maximum laws like western people do. Western people have freedom but cannot ride their bicycles the wrong way up a street. Therefore, who has the freedom? The people who are constrained or the people who seemingly are not?

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Post time 2012-4-26 04:21:09 |Display all floors
adolphus Post time: 2012-4-26 03:09
Well they do not because they do not have to. Maybe and just maybe they do not inflict the minimal ...

Well, we do have a different definition of freedom then.

For me, one's freedom stops where another one's freedom starts. When people drive the wrong way up a street, they endanger the person driving the right way down a street. By doing so they signify their well-being is more important than others well-being.

In the words of Thomas Hobbes, between the strong and the weak, it is liberty that oppresses and law that frees.

It is certainly funny to see chinese driving the wrong way when you're in for holidays. But when you actually live here, it is not funny at all and very tiring mentally.

I told you of the example of people parking on a space reserved for the fire brigade. Say one day there is a fire and the brigade cannot do its job on time because they had to wait for the police to tow the wrongfully parked car, is that freedom for the person losing all its belonging or, worse, dying in the fire ? Is the well-being of one individual more important than the well-being of the group ?

There is a policeman in the family of my wife and he told me very clearly there are too many people not respecting the traffic rules so they are short handed to deal with it and focus on more important matters. But there are more than 100,000 people dying on chinese roads every year. 95% of these deadly accidents could be avoided if they respected the law, is that freedom ? When a man drives at night completely drunk, therefore endangering the lives of people who might cross his path, is the freedom of innocent bypassers respected ?
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