Author: tamson

France should not ban the veil in the name of human right [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2010-6-4 14:57:37 |Display all floors
Originally posted by tamson at 2010-6-4 10:22
The burqa and the niqab are part of an individual’s religious beliefs. It’s strikingly contradictory therefore that France, in order to liberate women from perceived Islamic oppression, has to violate their universal human rights.

So why can’t the French tolerate the burqa or the niqab? ..


This is not only a question of women right or religious belief.
The Burqa is banned in public places for evident security reasons. Citizens have to be identifiable.
As a secular country, religious matters should come after the interest of the majority in France.
Here is the spirit:
Teamwork consists in making one's personal interests serve the interests of the team, not in having the team's interests serve one's individual profit.

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Post time 2010-6-4 15:18:46 |Display all floors
Originally posted by tamson at 2010-6-4 12:22
The burqa is part of an individual’s religious beliefs. It’s strikingly contradictory therefore that France, in order to liberate women from perceived Yslamic oppression, has to violate their universal human rights.
And where is the religious freedom?  is that a cultural suppression?.


You are actually wrong. The Burqa and Niqab are not specified by religion, as many Yslamic women go without any head covering entirely, and in places such as Indonesia & Malaysia, a simple hair covering is deemed sufficient.
The Burqa is a custom or cultural thing for certain ethnic groups, similar to cultural practices like foot binding, female genital mutilation, marrying off 13 year old girls to 60 year old men, and so on.
The custom is mediaeval and derives from a time and society when many men in those societies posed a threat of rape or kidnap to women. Sadly some of those societies even today see women mistreated, particularly if they do not entirely cover themselves with a Burqa.
To wear such attire in a modern civilised western country is effectively to say that these people think that western men are likely to behave the same way as a stinking fundamentalist troglodyte from a cave in Yemen or tribal regions of Pakistan, and I find it an ethnic slur against my people to be thought of in this way.

There is a case which can be made that if those (small number of) people insist on wearing such attire, that they may be best served by living in a society where it is relevant and properly appreciated.
"他不是救星, 他是一个非常淘气男孩" - Monty Python

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Post time 2010-6-4 15:20:14 |Display all floors
Originally posted by tamson at 2010-6-4 12:22
The burqa is part of an individual’s rel!gious beliefs. It’s strikingly contradictory therefore that France, in order to liberate women from perceived Yslamic oppression, has to violate their universal human r!ghts.
And where is the rel!g!ous freedom?  is that a cultural suppression?.


You are actually wrong. The Burqa and Niqab are not specified by rel!gion, as many Yslamic women go without any head covering entirely, and in places such as Indonesia & Malaysia, a simple hair covering is deemed sufficient.
The Burqa is a custom or cultural thing for certain ethnic groups, similar to cultural practices like foot binding, female genital mutilation, marrying off 13 year old girls to 60 year old men, and so on.
The custom is mediaeval and derives from a time and society when many men in those societies posed a threat of rape or kidnap to women. Sadly some of those societies even today see women mistreated, particularly if they do not entirely cover themselves with a Burqa.
To wear such attire in a modern civilised western country is effectively to say that these people think that western men are likely to behave the same way as a stinking fundamentalist troglodyte from a cave in Yemen or tribal regions of Pakistan, and I find it an ethnic slur against my people to be thought of in this way.

There is a case which can be made that if those (small number of) people insist on wearing such attire, that they may be best served by living in a society where it is relevant and properly appreciated.
"他不是救星, 他是一个非常淘气男孩" - Monty Python

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Post time 2010-6-4 16:09:55 |Display all floors
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Post time 2010-6-4 16:12:08 |Display all floors
Originally posted by emucentral at 2010-6-4 15:20


You are actually wrong. The Burqa and Niqab are not specified by rel!gion, as many Yslamic women go without any head covering entirely, and in places such as Indonesia & Malaysia, a simple  ...


Here are the 2 Sura from the Koran:
"Tell the faithful women that they must keep their gaze focused below/on the ground and cover their sexual organs. They must not put their beauty and their jewellery on display. They must hide their breasts behind a purdah. They must not exhibit their beauty to anybody except their husbands, brothers, nephews, womenfolk, servants, eunuch employees and children. They must not move their legs briskly while walking because then much of their bodies can get exposed." (Sura Al Noor 24:31)
"Oh nabi, please tell your wives and daughters and faithful women to wear a covering dress on their bodies. That would be good. Then nobody can recognise them and harrass them. Allah is merciful and kind." (Sura Al Hijaab 33: 59)

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Post time 2010-6-4 16:13:25 |Display all floors
Originally posted by Wahahaha at 2010-6-4 16:09



The greatest violator of that spirit on earth? The US of A.

Team leader of NATO, UN and team member of whatever international organization you care to name.  Her behaviour speaks louder th ...


USA are not the subject here.

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Post time 2010-6-4 16:14:52 |Display all floors
Originally posted by seneca at 2010-6-4 15:21
I think the French legislation has gone too far, but then again this is THEIR DOMESTIC issue and who are foreign posters such as Tamson or Dejavu to advise the French?

For us outside of Europe,  ...


The Islam in France is a moderate Maghrebi Islam. Burqa is very new there.
Half of the women who entirely cover their face in France are actualy freshly converted muslims who want to show off.
The ban of the Burqa had the support of official mulsim representatives.

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