Author: devilman

because i am not white! [Copy link] 中文

Rank: 8Rank: 8

Post time 2005-9-3 14:22:42 |Display all floors


I see that while I was writing - so were you; sort of.

I should clear up what are obviously your misconceptions.

1. I am not American.

2. Unlike you, I have actually lived in China - and for almost the same amount of time you have lived in England.

3. I am in China legally, work in China legally, live in China legally, and pay taxes in China.

4. I just happen to be foreigner.

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Rank: 4

Post time 2005-9-3 14:41:25 |Display all floors


lets not get too heated on this little debate? ok as you would like to know so well. my chinese reading and writing is of grade 6 from HK teachers in UK. i can speak cantonese, hakka and mandarin is of low level i can understand competely but my speaking is of poor quality. i respect you immensely dont get me wrong.

i am in Shenzhen and i dont need a "z visa" because my birth place is HK so i have already applied for a visa from HK. So i am legal to work because i have an HK ID card and British passport. The training centre is called com-com and euro english in shenzhen. com-com pays 10000-20000 to foreigners depending on the experience or ability. Maybe Shenzhen is too competitve for me and i should look at places that want to learn english for education purposes instead of business gain.

i would like to add this is not an english essay or exam and all you seem to be able to do is scrutinize me for this. Being a teacher is not just about knowledge but most importantly your method on how to teach.

i do not have disrespect for the chinese society, i do believe that they have problems with the system if any on running anything. I went to a school the other day and i just sat around with a cup of water looking around an empty room. It was the same with the training centre where i sat and waited for half an hour before i did my demo-class.

I wish that China recognises the fact that paying alot of money for something doesnt neccessarily mean you are getting what your paying for.

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Post time 2005-9-4 13:50:34 |Display all floors


"further more of these "foreigners" flocking here because they are getting paid 3-4 times more than teaching in their own countries."-devilman

Are you well? Teachers in North America may not be "rich" but they are definitely NOT starving. This means that they earn WAY more in their homeland than here.
Any highschooler can earn as much as an English teacher in a small to medium sized Chinese city. Even in a large city the pay is not exorbitant once you do the exchange. It's just that the money goes further on a daily-life basis. The reality sets in when you want something that costs regular international currency. You'll see how little you really make.
Anyway, why begrudge those who move to better their lot? There are millins of Chinese in Canada...some with no real qualifications. They are happy to be there because their life has just improved (subjective...haha). WHy not be happy that others come to China?

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Rank: 8Rank: 8

Post time 2005-9-4 14:40:15 |Display all floors

Well, at least your writing has improved since your first post.

I should clear up some more misconceptions.

Most importantly perhaps, in my opinion, China does not have any need whatsoever for any foreigners to come to China to teach grammar, reading or writing. NONE WHATSOEVER!

There are exceptionally qualified Chinese teachers in China who often have an even better understanding of English grammar than do foreigners - simply because that was all they learned in the upside-down method of teaching language they studied under.

In my opinion - made before on the forum, this is not the first time - all that Chinese students need from foreigners is professional speech teachers; and professional here means someone that has studied speech. Experts from the fields of Broadcasting, Public Speaking - even Public Relations. Chinese students need professionals in Speech Mechanics, Speech Therapy, anything to do with actually learning the vast differences between speaking a language such as Chinese and one such as English.

Chinese students do NOT need a foreigner to come and tell them what a noun is.

I also do not agree with the stupidity of paying a foreigner - of any kind including Overseas Chinese of any stripe - more than is paid to a Chinese teacher, or engineer, or factory worker or whatever. To me, this is an insult that is unsupportable as to reason.

Of course, so-called foreign English teachers will try and say that they are teaching speech - but "Gen Wo Du" is NOT teaching speech. Standing in front of a class and having the students follow along while a heavily accented foreigner recites from a lesson is NOT teaching speech - it is not even teaching Listening!

No, in my opinion, Chinese students have no need whatsoever for a foreigner - legal, backpacking or otherwise - just to stand, or sit,  in front of a class and read out loud while the students sit their uninvolved.

It is made even more preposterous when the so-called teacher has a heavy accent that the poor students haven't got a hope of understanding.

My suggestion? Find a China company doing International Trade of a commodity or commodities that interests you, approach them as a potential staff member that can communicate with foreign companies so as to increase their sales. Don't ask for a salary greater than that given to those already working as salesmen - simply because it is not deserved just because you are a "foreigner." Work under the same conditions of commission plus basic salary, and then make your millions by performing.

Who knows, the company may even give you a sideline duty with a bonus added for teaching some English to the rest of the staff.

China doesn't need foreigners just to teach grammar, reading or writing. Your expertise as described has nothing to do with what is really needed - speech professionals - so parley your skills within a market that does need your skills, that being International Trade or even Tourism, or other parts of the Hospitality industry.

Leave the teaching jobs to those Chinese you mention with the Masters degrees. They deserve them more, and the students deserve the quality of those teachers rather than the often dubious "skills" of self-important foreigners.

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Post time 2005-9-4 16:24:33 |Display all floors

Not even qualified

98% of "foreign experts" teaching English in China are completely unqualified.

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Post time 2005-9-5 19:22:14 |Display all floors

small note

tekvicious - one question first? what is it with north americans? anyway i would like to get to the point. I dont have any grudges against people having a better life and what they do with their life. so replying to what a foreign teacher can earn here as you say is about the same as in a western country such as America for instance? about the same or even better? so forth from that we are working out the average income of a foreigner here even at basic lowest rate taking with to the fact with regards to cost of living and expenditure anywhere in China i do believe that you can really live well with only working on average about 25 hrs a week?

i understand the western view for your "acceptance" to immigrants such as chinese people for example can be ok as the chinese people there are not educated and dont really have any skills, right? as they open chinese resturants, launderettes and convience stores and so forth. But do you know why they go over there? ask yourself why? if you need me to explain i will. If your well educated and have a good job why would you want to leave your country right?

Canchin - i want to clear up some misconceptions too. I am not saying that foreigners are not doing a good job because i know some teachers and they are really trying hard and are actually getting results. I just believe that it is not to be blamed on race or background but on media and the training centres that so look for "white skin". As you may know if your skin is either black, brown or yellow or any other colour excluding white you will find it a little more diffitcult in finding a job to do with the teaching of english. Which is what this topic is about.

I would like to also apologise for using "because i am not white" for the subject of this topic and so i would like to explain why. I have heard these words so many times when applying for a job even before i can even say anything. At least some recruiting agencies are nicer and would say in a more polite fashion - "they are looking for someone with more of a foriegn look".

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Rank: 8Rank: 8

Post time 2005-9-5 20:28:51 |Display all floors

Difficulties for Devilman

Hi Devilman,

I don't think I've seen you round the forum before so G'day.
Sorry to hear of your difficulties with employment in your chosen field.
I had heard a story (I don't know how true it is) that in one situation BELGIANS were chosen to teach English to Chinese students. The rationale was that the Belgians would have more idea of the "difficulties" in learning English and would be more aware of those things which were important to teach, whereas the native English speakers were too familiar with the language.

Now as to the "discussion" you appear to be having with Tek and Canchin, you'd be aware both these chaps are Canadian and both resident in China at present, I believe.
Canchin is particularly "sensitive" to any perceived criticism of China which is why he's jumped on you at the slightest provocation!!!
Tek is more balanced in his approach and has been subject to some rather tasteless racist remarks because he tells it as he sees it.

Now as to my mate Greendragon, a chinese malaysian (is my understanding) well he often comes out with some interesting statements and I really can't work out which way he's going sometimes!!! (Sorry GD). Greenie's use of "Banana" to describe a "westernised" Chinese person does seem to be a popular insult here.
I don't think GD is using at as an insult in this instance (he's too polite), but others in this forum do use it as an insult and although I do not qualify to be called this, I do find it objectional as I find other slurs used against various ethnicities.

I guess the problem you are facing is exactly the type of "prejudice" we all face and are guilty of displaying. When I went to German language classes, I wanted the teacher to be a native German. When I went to Japanese language classes I wanted the "sensei" to be a native Japanese. Although you obviously "qualify" as a native English speaker, you are probably not "exotic" enough to be the preferred teacher, and you have my sympathies!!!

I cannot offer you any help really, but you have my best wishes!



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