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Shan, based on your own pasting above, it is clear, as I said before, that the Lancet figures are based on estimates, and not on actual figures. As you pointed out, they surveyed 35 homes or so in 30 neighborhoods, and then multiplied those figures for the whole nation. Well, that might be accurate or it might not. If, for instance, we were to take the number of murders that occurred in New York City, and multiply that for an estimate of the rest of New York State, we would get a grossly skewed figure. I lived in the city of Binghamton for 5 years, and during that time we only had about 7 murders.|
On the other hand, the Iraq Body Count is based their figures on actually verified deaths -- not by the U.S. Army, but by Iraqi official bodies -- such as hospital records, morgue records, occasionally media reports, and also the counts given by the regular people of their familes. But what they did not do (and what Lancet did do) is take the figures for one town, and assume that that was true for the rest of Iraq.
The Iraq Body Count also gives the figures for deaths caused by each of the military actions -- such as 200 killed by cluster bombs. They have a table on their website that lists all that.
Now, probably, the true number is somewhere between the Lancet figure and the Iraq Body Count figure. At any rate, I think we can all agree that, whatever the figures, they are far too high.
We should remember that a large number of those civilian deaths caused by coalition forces were the result of Saddam using his own people as human shields (he did this with the British citizens and other foreigners in the 1991 war, but most of them had left the country by time this last war started). He purposely placed his military arsenal in highly populated civilian neighborhoods.
But Shan, I think it is wrong for you to assume that I have no concern for those people simply because I pointed out the atrocities of Saddam prior to the war. I was concerned for their welfare before (while you were apparently in blissful ignorance of their conditions), and I am still concerned now. In fact, I remember feeling severe apprehension in the months prior to the war, and terrible sorrow at the time the invasion began.
And yes, I'm well aware of the hand that both American and Britain (and don't forget, China) had in aiding and abetting Saddam in the Iran/Iraq conflict years from the late 70's through the 80's. America had a grudge against Iran because they'd taken a number of our embassy people hostage in the Ayatollah Khomeni takeover of the country.
Wchao, perhaps your posting will appear once the moderators review it. For some reason, they seem to be giving closer scrutiny to Middle East postings these days.
Serlarc, I always like what you have to say on politics, so best stick around up here, and stay out of the relationships postings (I think they're too tempting for you!)