Author: shanhuang

A nation bickering about smoking while Iraq burns [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2004-11-27 05:06:50 |Display all floors

A comment on kstanb's comment on "A thought on karenb's comment 3)"

...I am learning how to use this forum!
Also ever think ? A person stated "China would never allow it". "Killings of citizens".
I wonder if this person ever wondered what would happen to all of China if China followed through with China's  worning to USA?
Any loss of ANY city in USA would be  end of this world as we now now it.
Lets think positive, that this will not ever happen,
let war be only a * thought *  between China and the USA nations!!!

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Post time 2004-11-27 05:09:58 |Display all floors

J.N.

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Post time 2004-11-27 05:25:07 |Display all floors

J.N.

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Post time 2004-11-27 05:41:43 |Display all floors

A comment on kstanb's comment on "A thought on karenb's comment 3)"

Shan Huang


         A comment on kstanb's comment on "A thought on karenb's comment 3)"AS a record,

kstanb
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2004-11-26

So, another new handle?? Just remind me of the new handle of "geoffxxx" on my “Report: US marine kills wounded Iraqis” thread. People should go to check out what geoffxxx said on that thread. My goodness. But welcome anyway.

Thank you for reserved welcome, Shan.  I am not some other person.

So this became a newspaper commercial issue rather than a nation-wide response to war and human lives?......Shan, it **became** many things, many people see and understand things their own way.

At least the author said it was a response to smoking, I thought. And the extremely high turn-out of voting rate in this election doesn't count I guess, and all those who didn't vote stand for Bush?

You understand this as a high turnout. hahaha, funny. A hi turnout is  people that can vote, do, not the few that voted. Sure, reports say hi turnout, that is missleading.

[”What you say did not happen befor the war? Killing of civilians? As when Sadams army would go kill kurds? Or other ethnics or trouble spots he delt with.

Why do you think the USA had to fly and inforce Iracs from being killed by Iracs since the end of the 1992 war? We care.”] --- kstanb

I think it’s better ask Karenb to explain what she/he put there is about the recent insurgents or about things happened before the war. .....Shan, you forget you words?  I thought you asked to be corrected if you was wrong.
I stated the fact Iraci's was indeed killing Iraci's befor the war.


If it’s about before the war, then what karenb said was irrelevant in relating to “insurgents”, so doesn't make much sense to bring it up here.

.....Shan, I only stated that  because you seemed  not to.

[”Could anyone wonder why we care?

We as a nation are looked at from other nations (their veiw) as war mongers. I think that is very sad. Wrong too. But we all think what we will.”] ----kstanb

It is very very SAD to see US troops have to kill 100,000 civilians and destroy a country to bring “freedom” and “democracy” to other nations,
......Shan, we did not need to ok?  It was a plane that was used.  The military had more choices,  I will not get too far into that.  I can think about Japan though! We did not have to Nuke Japan either, we was  winning the war with them. Yes we have choices!  We could of fought that war for many, many more years!  War is sooooo sad!

I know China won’t allow it, ......Shan, sorry China did, we are discussing history,  or maybe I take your words wong way?

Russia won’t allow it and no nation would allow it. The international law doesn’t allow it.

The rest of your post is your statement, free to express. .....Thank you Shan, you reminded me of the words "give me freedom, or give me death!"

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Post time 2004-11-27 07:49:09 |Display all floors

No one in America really care about the War and only crazy people in this Forum

America is NOT interested in the War, and care less about how many people died !

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Post time 2004-11-27 08:49:37 |Display all floors

"Correct me if I'm wrong"

Well, yes, Shan, I was referring in my post above to the actions of particular insurgents in recent months -- which, by the way, I do NOT think represent the rest of the Iraqi people.  I think most Iraqis are every bit as horrified by these actions as we are.

But did such atrocities occur in Iraq before this war?  Oh, yes, Shan, yes they did, and even worse, under the regime of Sadaam.

Sadaam conducted, for decades, a genocidal campaign against the Kurds and other ethnic minorities in his country (called "Anfal") -- according to Human Rights Watch, he is responsible for the deaths of 50,000 to 100,000 ethnic minorities in his own country.

In March 1988  Saddam's henchman massacred more than 5,000 Iraqi civilians in Halabja, in a brutal chemical weapons attack utilizing mustard gas and nerve toxins. "Entire families were wiped out and the streets were littered with the corpses of men, women and children", reported the Washington Post (24/3/88). "Other forms of life in and around the city - horses, house cats, cattle - perished as well."


Sadaam invaded Kuwait in 1990 and threatened to invade Saudi Arabia until the U.S. and other allies stepped in.  During this war:

-Saddam held more than 4500 British citizens (and thousands of other foreigners) hostage in Baghdad, in deplorable conditions for 5 months, using them as human shields.

-but the Kuwaiti nationals that he took as prisoners (as well as Iraqis who resisted his evil intentions), had it far worse.  Saddam's torture of prisoners included electric shocks, burns, rape, cutting off ears and tongue, gouging out eyes, and castration.  His son was known to hang prisoners over a tree chopper, and chop them up alive, from their feet up.

-600 Kuwaitis who were taken prisoner and transported to Iraq are still missing to this day.

These are a few of the crimes for which Saddam Hussein is standing trial today.  And this is also the reason why a lot of people, even though they might have doubted the existence of WMDs in the months prior to this most recent war, thought that a regime change was warranted. It might explain the laziness on the part of some journalists.

Let me go on record as stating that I wasn't among them.  I remember reading an article (NY Times, I think?) back in 2002 (?)  stating that a regime change in Iraq would lead to even more strife and atrocities, and  I agreed wholeheartedly with that article, and that is exactly what we're seeing today.  This war was a mistake.  But let's not kid ourselves that things were all rosy in the "good ole days."

And one correction to your statement about U.S. troops killing 100,000 civilians.  This is the number given by the Lancet survey.  However, that survey did not always distinguish between deaths of civilians and combatants.  Futhermore, it was largely based on estimates and projections.  The Iraq Body Count figures of between 14,000 to 16,000 are based on deaths tallied by official bodies (hospitals, morgues) (although IBC will be the first to explain that their total is sure to be an underestimate).  

But the important point is that less than half  of those civilian causalties were at the hands of U.S. troops.   The majority of the deaths are the result of Iraqi on Iraqi violence.  So it is a bit misleading to say that U.S. troops have killed 100,000 civilians, although we could readily admit that the disruption of law and order (which has led to such a high number of civilian deaths) was caused by this invasion.

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Post time 2004-11-27 09:02:42 |Display all floors

Kanyuek, I see you've reincarnated yourself as Selrahc

I would encourage you to exercise control over your language and particularly your explicit sex talk in some of the forums down below, and maybe the moderators will let you stay around this time.  (I was amazed that they banned Stud for relatively minor infractions, but allowed you to rampage on).

Anyway, you don't need to tell me to learn something about the south.  I'm a born and bred southerner, and I know what the lives of the people there are like.  I know that for a lot of those boys in the depressed areas of Alabama, Kentucky, and Mississippi that joining the army is about the only career choice they have, and they are no doubt clueless about the politics of the Middle East when they are shipped off there.  And if that war-beaten boy wanted to take a drag on a cigarette after the horrors he had no doubt just been through, then I don't begrudge him that.

But you and Shan are absolutely right -- for most Americans, the war in Iraq is a distant unpleasantness, and the thoughts they give to the men, women, and children dying there are brief and fleeting.

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