Author: twchinese

The true nature of the Taidu movement [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2004-10-26 09:37:25 |Display all floors

re: "Maybe what TW represents is the real problem?"

hm ... good point there, tek.  

the chinese leadership is probably pretty concerned about the fall of the kuomintang in taiwan.  if the people there can peacefully transform their own government through democracy (even if it's messy), then what does that mean for the chinese mainland?

ts

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Post time 2004-10-26 11:31:55 |Display all floors

A point-by-point refutation of the above post by a diehard Taidu

The initial remarks hereunder are from a diehard Taidu whose opinions are quite representative of the illogical mush-mush they present every time they want to explain why they would not join the mainland in a win-win re-unification bid.  

The comments following each paragraph of the opinion belong to wchao37.

__________________



(Here’s Taidu’s beginning statement)

<b>Let me first clarify that Taidu is not equivalent to "hate being Chinese," "subordinate Chinese legacy," or "resent China." There are people who believe that TW would be better off had it been an independent country; and these people are automatically labeled "Taidu" or "China-haters" not only by the mainlanders, but also by Chinese in TW and overseas. There are a number of causes for the Taidus and they may be broken down into the following categories. </b>



<b>My Comment</b>

I am glad that Chinadaily allowed this thread to stay because it sure gives us a good idea what kind of muddle-headed thinkers we are dealing with.  Many non-Taidu Chinese also seem unable to defend their stand when confronted by the Taidus because their brains have not been challenged adequately in the give-and-take of public debates.

That's why on Day One they'd believe one set of ideas and then on Day Two they'd believe another set of ideas diametrically opposite to the first.

We have actually been talking about two different aspects of the entity known as the Chinese nation: the biological and the political.  

How many times do we have to shake these Taidu folks out of their cobwebs of self-deception borne out of their antipathy towards critical thinking processes?

How many times do we have to explain to them our rationale in evaluating the funamental interests of our Chinese nation?

Whether the Taiwan people harbor any of these EMOTIONS of “hate” or “resentment” is irrelevant to the question of Taidu.  

Let me put it this way:

It is one thing for a child to throw a temper tantrum because the parents want him to finish eating vegetables in his bowl and he disagrees; it is quite another if he pulls out a gun to stop the parents from calling him their son.  

The child cannot use the excuse of disliking any or all aspects of the day-to-day practical parent-child relationship to disown the basic biological and legal parent-child bond.

China is the motherland of all the Chinese people, including the Mainlanders, the Islanders and Overseas Chinese. That’s the biological aspect.  That doesn’t mean that we think all the foreign lands to which Chinese people have migrated belong to the Chinese.  That would have been absurd because that’s the political and legal aspect – an entirely different ball of wax. We only believe that the Mainland and the Island of Taiwan belong to the Chinese nation politically and legally.

That's to say: what we are insisting upon is the fact that the Island belongs POLITICALLY and LEGALLY to the country of China, just as the Mainland belongs to China according to these two criteria.

The Taidu here says that “Let me first clarify that Taidu is not equivalent to ‘hate being Chinese,’ ‘subordinate Chinese legacy,’ or ‘resent China.’”

But of course it is not equivalent.  

Many Islanders make a ton of money from doing business on the mainland.  Why would they have these negative feelings when they should be laughing all the way to the bank?

What we are objecting to is the ACTION of some people from Taiwan with or without commercial interests on the mainland supporting the ILLEGAL separation of the Island from the Mainland – an action which is known as Taidu.

So bringing forth emotional reasons of personal likes and dislikes according to individual preferences is entirely impertinent to our discussion here.

The basis of any political discussion is the One China Principle.

Whether a child likes or dislikes his legal guardian has nothing to do with the legality of the guardian-child relationship, which is quite separate from the biological parent-child bond.

In the same vein whether a Chinese living in Taiwan likes the Beijing government or not has nothing to do with the legal rights of China over the Island.

Let me explain the difference between biological and legal custody.

Before the divorce proceedings in a court of law, either parent can go anywhere he/she wants to with the child because each of them has the custodial rights to the child.

After a divorce proceeding, if the estranged or non-custodial parent tries to grab his biological child and run with the child into hiding, it is called kidnapping – even though genetically it is his OWN child.

Taiwan Island has been determined after WWII to belong to China through international treaties and the recognition of the U.N.  On purely legal and political grounds as far the United Nations is concerned, the Island belongs to China, which before November 1971 was (as absurd as it sounds but it was a fact due to U.S. meddling through the UN Security Council) represented in the world body by the ROC, and thereafter by the PRC.

So right now the PRC can do anything it wants with Taiwan.  It's her island.  

Let me give you another example.

If there are roving bandits at your home what's keeping you from pointing a gun at your own home to get them out?

Nothing!

If there are Taidu bandits in China's own island Taiwan what's keeping her from pointing 600, 700 or more missiles at the island to keep her from being permanently lost to foreigners?

Nothing!

The de facto (practical, factual) occupation of the Island by the Taiwan government does not negate the de jure (legal) jurisdiction of the PRC over these islands.  

The Taiwanese people are like kidnapped children held hostage on the island illegally occupied by a roving band of bandits who have now displaced the KMT and hijacked the government.  

They do not have de jure rights to such occupation whatsoever, and sooner or later the Mainland landlord will exercise the right to kick them out of the premises.

As is well known to be the case: due to the selfish partisan interests of the losers (KMT) of a civil war (1946-9) primarily fought on the mainland, the people living on the Island have been misled through fifty years of disinformation by the KMT to become emotionally estranged from the rest of China.  

This does not mean that just because the KMT is no longer in power, another roving band of bandits can take its place to claim de jure jurisdiction over the Islands.  

Such rights of the KMT to represent the whole of China had ceased to exist in November, 1971 when the PRC was recognized to be the sole legitimate government of the whole of China – including both the Mainland and the Island – by the United Nations.

Of particular importance is the fact that Taiwan had never been an independent country during its entire history.  

Let me emphasize this fact for everyone:

The KMT had represented the whole of China, including and not limited to the Island, at the United Nations before November, 1971.  It had never SOLELY represented the island of Taiwan.  After that date the KMT represented no one but itself.  By the same extension of this clear logic, the Taidus and the Greens represent no one but themselves after the KMT bookworms foolishly lost their control over the Taiwan government through their naivete in switching to adopt the American brand of ‘democracy’ -- itself a political swindle and a scam susceptible to foreign manipulation -- in Taiwan, making the KMT the laughing stock of world history.

Through fielding the inane theory that the Island and the Mainland have different cultural and historical roots, these hijackers of the Taiwan government have not only renounced the POLITICAL kinship of the Chinese people on both sides of the Strait, but also the biological and historical connection as well.  

All three aspects -- biological, legal and historical -- of the relationship have been put into question by these nincompoops.

Their unconscionable attempt to deny BOTH the POLITICAL and BIOLOGICAL ties of the Islanders and Mainlanders is a position so untenable that even foreign nations which know only the basic historical facts concerning the Taiwan issue have seen through this as an American and Japanese scam/ploy to detach the Island from the Mainland, and these nations have all opted to recognize the One China Principle.

It is clear by now that during the March, 2004 ‘election’ on the Island the Chen-Lu wulais fabricated the shooting incident to prevent the 200,000-strong, largely pro-Lien military personnel from taking part in the voting, and now even former leaders of the DPP like Xu Xinliang, Si Mingde and others have come out to question the legitimacy of the inane policies of Chen’s wulai ‘government.’  

It is clear that Chen is the pawn of the military-industrial complex of the United States in selling weapons to the Island.  He is propped up presently only by the International Black Hand – the U.S. and Japan -- without whose support he cannot survive one single day.

That’s why even his ‘election’ speech had to be approved by the U.S. State Department.  He couldn’t even fart without their approval.

All the calling of ‘forensic experts’ from America (like Connecticut’s Lee Chan-yue) was pre-planned by the Americans only to defuse the tense situation surrounding the rigged elections, and to thwart the momentum of the Pan Blue crowd in the latter's expected attempt to topple Chen-Lu’s wulai rule at the opportune moment.  

That Lien Chan did not avail himself of the only opportunity he had to do so proves that he is that nice little doggie in the window -- the one with the waggling tail -- that would never mature into a St. Bernard.

Yes, that was the only chance they had against Chen the wulai – right after the election when the Pan Blues were gathered in front of the Taipei palace headquarters of the Pan Greens.

Lee Chan-yue must have been coerced (given an offer he couldn’t refuse) into making the crucial statement that Chen did not shoot himself when all the evidence had pointed in the opposite direction.

In that capacity, he became THE focal point and was therefore the chief prostitute in the whole case because of the blind faith the Chinese people on both sides of the Strait had in him due to his prior exploits in celebrity cases in America.  

Even the mainland news media called him a 'shen tang,' a Chinese version of Sherlock Holmes.  But I immediately understood that he had no choice -- unless he was ready to lose everything that he had in America -- but to go along with the conclusion that was made for him.  His trip to Taiwan to 'do the investigation' was only a show to fool the Taiwan people.

How do I know?

Just like I knew at least one Chinese hostage was going to be killed by Abdullah Mehsud at the Pakistan-Afghanistan border.

It wasn't luck, it was an analysis based on the facts available.  You folks are the witnesses here as to the veracity of my claim.

In the case of Lee Chanyue, the logic of his initial determination is simply not there.  The crime scene had been contaminated and if he had truly been impartial the least he could have done was to pronounce the case unsolvable.  Instead, he announced at the time that Chen did not shoot himself – meaning that Chen WAS SHOT by someone.  

That claim by Lee was enough to defuse the situation, and it was a show directed by the United States.  In that sense Lee Chan-yue did a lot of harm to the Chinese nation.

After the initial momentum was lost, Lee then tried to rescue his reputation by saying that the shootings could not have been attempted political murders.  

So what else could they be?  What's the use of his late statement which must have been a compromise between his conscience and the pressure he was under from the Americans.

The re-election of Chen means that America was not going to observe the One China Principle no matter what the liars in Washington are saying.  Otherwise they could have left it alone -- let it be a fair fight between Lien-Soong and Chen-Lu.

So all those utterances Powell was making in Beijing yesterday is not worth a piece of toilet paper.  He was saying this only to get China to put pressure on the North Koreans to come to the conference table and thus help in the election of George W. Bush next week.

Lee Chan-yue is therefore the biggest whore of them all judging from all the facts surrounding the case that I have thus far enumerated for you.

We want you to understand:

The ACTIONS of the Taidus, not their personal preferences, determine whether they harm the basic interests of our Chinese nation: comprising the 1.3 billion Chinese on the Mainland, plus the 23 million Chinese on the Island.  

In addition, the 55 million overseas Chinese give spiritual and material support to the political and legal entity they call their motherland, because after many years of living abroad, they understand the importance of the political unity of their ancestral land.

__________________


<b>1. Victims or descendents of victims of the KMT suppression

These people are the descendents of the Chinese who moved to TW hundreds of years ago. They see the KMT as an "outsiders", invading their home and depriving them of their rights. They have been in TW for so long that they longer claim their roots in China. They comprise of a major part of the diehard pro-Lee, pro-independence Taidus. This group is the founding father of the Taidu force. </b>


<b>My Comment</b>

Moved to Taiwan island hundreds of years ago and so no more ties with the mainland?  Again a lot of crap here..

When well-armed Japanese tried to invade Northern Taiwan in as late as the 1870s, on the pretext that some of their compatriots were murdered by the locals, these ordinary folks organized effective resistance using big rocks from their mountainous stronghold and defeated the Japanese invaders.  They were definitely feeling the pride as Qing Dynasty's Chinese subjects at that time, so your claim that these people have lost their Chinese identities is untrue.  

They were heavily influenced by the Japanese during their fifty-year rule from 1895-1945 -- that's true.  But that doesn't mean that after the return of Taiwan to Chinese rule on October 25, 1945, they were supposed to go on letting their Japanese education influence their judgment on a matter as important as Chinese sovereignty over Taiwan.

Resistance against the invaders from afar, including those from Holland, never ceased in the history of the island as part of the Chinese empire.

The KMT was kicked out of the mainland because they mistreated mainlanders too, and not just the islanders.  According to your logic the mainlanders should also declare that they are not Chinese and that the mainland does not belong to China.

Does that make any sense?

This so-called pro-Lee pro-Taidu group is nothing more than Hanjians nurtured by the Japanese during their 50-year rule of the island.  

Remember Lee’s father was a policeman working for the Japanese emperor and Lee himself said he was Japanese before 22 years of age.

Why are we rehashing and re-arguing all this long-known history of the island?

No wonder the entire panoply of social discards in this forum – tsupasat, Seneca, crazyazn, and the rest of these nincompoops -- are all gathered here in a cacophony of crickets serenading the frog.

___________________



<b>2. Intellectuals and scholars

In several fields of advanced sciences and engineering, TW's current status limits its access to certain technologies and know-hows. There are some quasi-academic political research institutions that require memberships as a sovereign state (e.g. WIPO, WHO). In addition, due to the lack of access to some key equipments and knowledge transfers, some of TW's brightest researchers often have no choice but to continue their studies abroad. Problems of this sort will not be solved by simply reunifying with China. This is a very tiny bit of the eligible voter population. </b>


<b>My Comment</b>

The WHO is an organization whose membership entails the status of a sovereign nation.  The very fact that these people do not understand this and regard their inability to enter this organization ‘to do research’ as something unlawful proves that these are not scholars and intellectuals we are dealing with, but sheepskin-clad fools -- totally useless dregs of the Chinese nation.

Instead, their ignorance of simple truths like these and their participation in the political scam harming the interests of the motherland show that we are dealing with wulais.

Their bookish learning and degrees don’t mean a thing if they do not understand the basic prerequisites of real scholars – their willingness to be honest in offering logical and reasonable solutions to problems.


________________________


<b>3. Overseas Taiwanese

Like the overseas Chinese who hold permanent residences of wherever they are, these overseas Taiwanese come back to TW to vote and to give opinions for which they will not be responsible of. Some are quite persuasive and are able to influence the decisions of their relatives and friends when election nears. This is also a very tiny part of the Taidu group. </b>


<b> My Comment</b>

The Pan Blues have a lot of these busybodies too.  So what?


______________________


<b>4. Those who vote for the party, not the policy

These people are the blind followers of the pan-green force. Their causes may be have racial or lack of education. This is also a small part of the Taidu group. </b>


<b>Comment</b>

These are the walking dead – moribund, unthinking zombies more dangerous than cadavers -- because their unthinking act of supporting Chen harms the welfare of the Chinese who are still living on the planet.

____________________________



<b>5. Undecided voters

A lot of the pre-election polls show that somewhere around 30% of the voters were undecided weeks or even days before the election. This is a very interesting group of voters and the one group China must win in the following elections. These people can be swayed either way and they are NOT Taidu. In fact, some may cast their votes for the Green simply because they "wanted to give green a chance," following years of KMT corruption. The problem I see is that China is speaking to this particular group of voters with the wrong tone, which gave Chen the opportunity to exploit it. These people don't really care about Taidu or Reunification, all they hope for when casting their ballots is a better TW. In some regions or aspects that affect them the most, maybe the pro-independence Green does better, but the fact that they voted Green does not necessarily mean they are Taidu.</b>


<b> My Comment </b>

These undecideds, just like their counterparts in the U.S., have better not cast their votes.  If there were no chicanery involved, Chen would have lost in the March election.  

Such chicanery was long planned for in a conspiracy involving the Americans and the Japanese, as any unbiased observer of the situation in Taiwan can see.  The presence of Japanese and American spies and other special personnel to ensure the election of Chen-Lu is well known to all.

If those 200,000 soldiers were allowed to vote the day after the fabricated shootings instead of being told to stay put due to the concocted ‘emergency status,’ do you think Chen would have had a chance in the election?

Even without those 200,000 votes, Chen would have lost the rigged election.

You want proof?  

The TV broadcast of the vote count was interrupted for an hour on election night.  Before the interruption Lien Chan was leading in the vote count.  After that inexplicable one hour interruption, Chen was winning.
So reach your own conclusion as to what happened during that one hour.

________________________________


<b> Every time TW people vote, they are not only voting for whatever policy each candidate has, but also whether the candidate is Taidu or Pro-unification, or pro-status quo. This really complicates things and complicates the decision making processes of the voters, on top of the instigated Chinese military threat. Now here is the psychological turning point I want you mainland decision makers to understand. When a voter is deciding between a pan-Green and a pan-Blue, and if he somehow gets the impression that he will be PUNISHED for the decision, that's the exact point in time that he gets angry. And when he gets angry, that's when he will vote against China. He is angry of the fact that China is preventing him from making a fair choice, a choice which he thinks is better regardless of whether the candidate is pro-unification or Taidu. And when he is angry, he is not thinking clearly, that's when the headlines of "600 missiles" get to him. So at the end, more and more voters will use their votes to convey the message "don't mess with my decision making process by threatening my life and my family." I hope China is getting this message and approach the TW problem from another facet.

Use culture, use history, use economy, use fashion, use education exchange, and stop threatening our lives with the hostile rhetoric and missiles. </b>

<b> My Comment </b>

We don’t need to understand anything more than we already have.

On the contrary, you are the ones who need to understand this:

Your so-called ‘democracy’ is an exercise in futility – a rusted tool imported from the master of sham politics – the U.S.

If even the U.S. can cheat in her national presidential elections, what is the logical basis of using their system of democratic voting in Taiwan?  Can we truly count on their fairness?

If a people as sophisticated as the Americans can be deceived by chicanery into supporting an immoral war based upon fabricated pre-war information, what are the chances a much more severe case of political trickery can be avoided in Taiwan?

In fact, that precisely was what happened in Taiwan in March.  The election was rigged by the Americans just like they are doing now in Afghanistan  They had long planned for this to happen because they could not trust mainland-born Lien Chan.  As I mentioned above, they even had the forensic expert Lee Chan-yue ready for the occasion to fool the public.

Events have proven that our Chinese nation cannot effectively be attacked from outside by our enemies without heavy losses on their part.  It is much easier to attack from within.  

That’s why the nincompoops have been pushing for ‘democracy’ in Hongkong, and that’s why we have been denying them the right to do so there.  It is their desperate last chance to establish their toehold in mainland China through manipulating the Hongkong 'democrats.'

As Chairman Mao had said, the basic guarantee that our national enterprise will succeed is the unity of our party, our nation and our people.  The core of the leadership of our nation must be politically dependable and never a lackey of Western conspirators, and right now the CCP is the only viable core available to ensure the unity of our nation.  

This is a legacy of our nation’s modern history and we cherish it.

Since the CCP is able to correct her own mistakes and learn from them, its vitality is not to be doubted, as was the case of the Soviets in 1990.  The Chinese people trust that the party will lead the nation towards a resplendent future and that it is the true representative of the Chinese people.  People should be allowed to make mistakes and recover from them.  

Only people like George Bush will never admit that he had made a mistake in his administration, as if to admit that would cause him to lose his election.
  
The Mainland Chinese system of selecting top leaders through insiders – that is, through intervention by a trusted group of influential  elders on the behalf of candidates with regional experience, and with proven and tested political trustworthiness -- is most important for China, or else our enemies can win the war through establishing their proxy in the country without firing a shot.

That is representative government with Chinese characteristics.  We don’t want to use the word “democracy” with its bad connotation as a Western-imposed form of government.  Any nation falling under the 'democraic' banner has implicitly become a conquered people in its wake.

That’s why the Americans under Bill Clinton bombed Milosevic's Belgrade for weeks -- nominally to 'give democracy a chance' at Kosovo but in fact to establish their hegemony in a Balkan state to teach the rest of the world a lesson about their supremacy.

Bill Clinton attacked Yugoslavia from the air for weeks until Milosevic surrendered and allowed ‘democratic’ elections in Kosovo, which was a Yugoslavian province to begin with.  The Chinese government at the time did nothing and her own embassy at Belgrade was bombed.

So democracy has become the Anglo-dominated Western code word for conquest.  When they said they wanted to set up democracy in Afghanistan and Iraq they actually meant they wanted to conquer these lands for their big oil companies.  It had nothing to do with representative government.  Neither Karzai or Allawi are true representatives of the Afghan or Iraqi peoples, as their backgrounds have revealed for us.  

Is China going to lose Taiwan to American control through adopting a 'democracy'?

We shall see.  One thing is sure: the Americans cannot keep their word about the One China Principle.  They hadn't, and they wouldn't.


__________________________


<b>My Concluding remarks</b>

For Taiwan to be readmitted to the embrace of the motherland is an honor for the Taiwanese people, a priced privilege that is hardly an unenviable task subjected to prolonged wrangling and  backroom debates amongst small-feet old ladies.

What other people in the entire world are blessed with the privilege to share in the resplendent future of the Chinese nation?  

None except Taiwan!

If that is not a priced privilege, what is?

Never trust our geopolitical competitors across the Pacific Pond and the Japanese Isles about any other alternatives.

In their export of so-called democracies to other parts of the world, it is clear that their intention is not to establish genuinely representative governments in these lands of strategic interest, but to slip in their own agent at the top through manipulation of the voting machinery.

If you believe there is such a thing called Viable Western Democracy in our world, you've better think again.

The day that China chooses Western democracy, that is the day she sounds her own death knell.

As was mentioned above, democracy has become the code word for conquest in contemporary world politics.  To understand our world is to understand the content of these code words used by our competitors.

Force or the threat to use force is necessary for re-unification as even a seven year-old will understand.  Only then do peaceful means have a chance in success.

After such a prolonged absence, the people on the Island need some prodding bigtime and the threat of force will prompt them to fight their own Taidu government of the Chen-Lu clowns.

If they are so dimwitted as not being able to understand why it is important to fight the Taidu government, then the use of force will be rendered even more logical and the sooner the better.

Just think: the only way to prevent a deaf-mute from being run down by oncoming traffic for his own good is to push or prod him towards the sidewalks away from physical danger.  

The only way to prevent dimwits from being harmed by the unacceptable political agenda of the Taidu government is to let them know we are fully prepared to use force.

Together with our Taiwan brethren, we shall overcome all difficulties along the path towards re-unification with the precious Island of Taiwan.



Wei Chao, M.D.
HKSAR

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Post time 2004-10-26 11:44:59 |Display all floors

True nature of taidu

They enjoy being running dogs of their western masters. S&M.

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Post time 2004-10-27 05:18:58 |Display all floors

Mao also said:

"Zhi ji zhi bi, bai zhan bai sheng."
English translation: "Knowing your enemies will help win wars a hundred times out of a hundred tries."

Does the CCP know its enemy or apathize with them? No!

You cannot solve the problem by military threats or the use of force, it is a crime against humanity. China should also improve its human rights because how can you expect others to respect you when you don't even respect your own people (TW Chinese)???

If the 10 millions in TW who express an unfavorable opinion is to be doomed, China will gain zero respect from the world.

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Post time 2004-10-27 06:14:14 |Display all floors

twchinese Talk only when you are talked to, not a second before

I just finished a dump, and yet your presence here makes the air smell worse than the restroom I was in.

Your rambling and weak response here does not add one iota of worth or respect in my balance book for people like you, twchinese.

Incidentally, you subconsciously know you are Chinese, or you would have called yourself Cntaiwanese instead of twchinese.

You know instinctively that the first Cntaiwanese has not even been born yet.

All you have on that Precious Island are 23 million twchinese.  In other words, they are all Chinese, whether they are Xinjiangchinese, Hongkongchinese, Macaochinese, Shanghachinese, Beijingchinese.

The only difference is where they take their dump in the morning.

We don't worry about your so-called 10 million people who cast their votes for Chen the wulai.  We know ourselves and we know you.

Most twchinese who voted for Chen the wulai don't know what they were doing.

We don't have time to teach the misguided children the basics of national dignity.  That's why we need 600 missiles to show them that their parents are on their way to rescue them from the kidnappers who have invaded our house, the house to which we have sole authority to use any way we want to since November, 1971.

Stop the antics and behave, you hear?

Now, when I say jump, what should you say?

"How high?"

Good.  It shows you are learning something today.

Good.

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Post time 2004-10-27 06:46:58 |Display all floors

wchao

As we speak, foreign companies are taking a huge dump in China, polluting your beautiful landscapes and fresh air.

The Japs who raped your grandmas and burned your houses are still occupying the most expensive area of your most expensive city Shanghai.

Who is the true Hanjian?

Your arguments are self-contradictory at best. On one hand you talk about the dignity of being a Chinese, on the other you subconsciously concur to the fact that there is lack of human rights in China, or that the Chinese people should sacrifice themselves for the unity of the CCP.

The very purpose of having dignity is to earn the respect of others. How do you expect to earn this respect when you treat your own like shit and treat others (Japs and Americans) like kings?

The chances are that you probably live abroad and you don't know what it's like in China's rural areas or factories. You are talking out of the comfort and safety of your home. And chances are that you will only go back to China when it is all rich and powerful, which only exists in your vision right now.

It's good to have a vision, but getting there requires more than taking a dump and smelling the reek. Should your simple mind loaded with stinky crap understand this concept is your own business... especially for someone who doesn't even live in any of the provinces in CHINA!

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Post time 2004-10-27 07:05:14 |Display all floors

a

This post was edited by twu026 at 2012-10-10 17:58

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