Author: wchao37

A probe into the possible fate of the two kidnapped Chinese engineers [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2004-10-12 19:10:59 |Display all floors

tekvicious

Read this from above:

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I had wanted to promote Sino-American friendship because I like the American people by and large, but not the America under the neocons -- a true onus of hubris, that's what the government represents right now. And they have done a lot of harm to the American people. I hope they will change course and not get into a conflict with China.


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No I don't hate Americans.  We were allies during WWII when our interest in fighting the Japanese invaders brought us together.  The Americans I know of can be very different from the ones who go to lunch near Lafayette Park.  The country is like a house divided into two camps evenly matched.  That's why in the last election the difference is only 537 votes in Florida, and Al Gore actually won the popular vote (not the electoral college votes).

Some Americans don't hate us.  Some do, and they are here in this forum.  To them, the only good Chinese are the dead ones.

Hell, when the trans-continental railroad was completed and joined somewhere in Utah, the picture taken then showed only the Irish -- 'poor White trash' that's what they were known as by the other Great Whites.

The Chinese who did most of the most dangerous portions of the work in the Rocky Mountains were nowhere to be seen in that photograph with the steam locomotives facing each other.

That's why they have been talking about 'Chinamen's Chance' (=no chance) in the past and still do in some places.

Do you know they even passed a law excluding all Chinese from the States in 1882 called the Chinese Exclusion Act?

There are a lot of things which you might not know and you think we are just being fretful for nothing.

We aren't.

There is a valid reason for all my arguments, as you will see in time.

I could be wrong, and I hope I am wrong and the engineers return safety to their families.

But what if I am right?

Call up Paul Wolfowitz at this number 1-800-IMsatan, and find out if he does have a plan for the two Chinese engineers and ask why Abdullah Mehsud gets paid so much -- enough for him to afford leading a small army of men so soon after leaving Guantanamo Bay.

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Post time 2004-10-12 20:16:01 |Display all floors

Respectfully disagreeing, Wchao

As you know I have tremendous respect and admiration for you, but on this point, dear friend, I shall have to disagree.  Not with everything you said above; on some things I agree ,and some of your other points are food for thought and future digestion, but with a few of the more important points, I must confess I fail to see the logic.

First, as I hope you already know, this particular American is hoping and praying for the safe return of these Chinese engineers.  

I believe most Americans and other Westerners are unaware of the kidnapping of these Chinese men. As Ubersuave pointed out, it isn't exactly topping the news in the West.   In fact, a casual glance through the headline news on MSN showed nothing about this kidnapping.  I believe I can assure you that  if they were aware, the overwhelming majority of Americans would likewise be hoping for the safe return of these captives.  I hope you really don't believe that we're such a terrible people that we would wish the killing of two innocent men.

Yes, America did provide support  (arms and training) to Osama bin Ladin and Afghanistan during the Soviet invasion of that country a couple decades ago.  I seem to recall that in those days China was just as nervous about the Soviet encroachment and perhaps also provided some support to the anti-Soviet forces in Afghanistan in the form of arms and finances. But my memory is a bit cloudy -- maybe that didn't happen.

In 1988 Osama bin Ladin formed Al Qaeda in the border area of Afghanistan and Peshawar Pakistan -- a terrorist group whose goal was (and is) to overthrow "corrupt and heretic" governments in predominantly Muslim countries and establish ultra-fundamentalist regimes under the "rule of the Caliph" -- basically something similar to the Taliban rule.

And all of us have seen how Al-Qaida and their cronies (Al Jihad in Egypt, Hezbollah in Iran, the National Islamic Front in Sudan, Ayman al-Zarqawi's group in Iraq, etc.) have, in their terrorist operations, primarily targeted the U.S. and Muslim governments friendly to the U.S.

Now I just don't see that it is  logical that America would mastermind the kidnapping of these Chinese men for any of the reasons you mentioned above.  Let's take them one by one:

1) Dividing the Islamic people and Chinese.  How would that benefit America?  

2) Momentum for Islamic insurgency in X*nj*ang.  Once again, how does America benefit?  America and China have already aligned themselves more than two years ago in the struggle against these insurgents.

3) Stopping China from engaging in profitable commercial activities.  Well, that might be the most probable; however, I don't think China was profiting from development projects in Afghanistan (where the Chinese workers were killed).  Nor were they in competition with American companies in those endeavors (that I know of ).

4) Making a bad situation in Iraq more palatable in the homeland.  Now while I'm sure Pres. Bush would go to great lengths to make the Iraq situation more palatable, I don't think this particular means would achieve the end.  To begin with, the American media seems to be almost completely silent on the kidnapping.  Furthermore, the idea that Americans would suddenly rally around Bush because the peace-loving Chinese are now getting attacked by the terrorists just wouldn't work in America.  Take it from an American -- it would be far more effective if the dastardly terrorists did something to, say, Americans on American soil if Bush wanted to rally the home team.

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Post time 2004-10-13 01:22:47 |Display all floors

You obviously are one of the other half of the population, karenb

I wish you were there when they bombed the Chinese embassy in Belgrade, Yugoslavia.

karenb:

I know you aren't one of those I am talking about.  On a topic like this, sensitivities can be easily hurt, and I in particular wouldn't have wanted to hurt you, so here's a napkin for the tears...

You wouldn't have liked that bombing of the embassy in 1999 either, but it happened.  

Five guided missiles hit the building, with one smart bomb burrowing all the way from the roof to the basement of that five-story building.  If the bombing had started a little earlier most of the embassy staff would have been killed because that was the place where they usually congregated.  

So just because upright and kind-hearted Americans feel one way does not mean that things don't happen.

Evil is everywhere, and Daniels fighting the temptation of evil in lion dens are with us everywhere too.

You've got to be able to see the world from Rumsfeld's, Wolfowitz's or even Clinton's position.  Being in the Oval Office or the Pentagon does something strange to normally sensible and nice people.  They are the nicest people to their families too.  Wasn't Clinton a great guy  (without those affairs he'll even be better) at least to Chelsea?  But that bombing  blaming on 'old maps' happened during his watch.

Nice people in the administration do not a sensible policy make.  Human beings are notoriously efficient in doing harm to their fellow beings.

I have many American friends, and some don't think as you do, but that does not mean they are any lesser people than you are.

Differences of opinion are bound to crop up once in a while.

I guess in this case we just have to wait and see.

How I hope the engineers come back safe and sound, but the presence of Abdullah Mehsud -- the Afghan recently released from Guantanamo and declared 'harmless'  -- truly gives me the goosebumps.

So recently released and so quickly ensconsced in Afghan with followers ready to do some real-time kidnapping -- that's the sign of a conspiracy.  That and the fact that they recently allowed the establishment of an office for the 'East Turkestan' Xinjiang separatists in Washington, D.C. -- a deadly combination of facts that should raise some eyebrows.

I don't think the consideration of a connection here would be entirely without merits.

A probe, karenb, stays a probe.  If I were correct half of the times I conduct a probe, I should be doing foretune-telling as a sideline hobby.  

I thank you for taking the time to write and making your feelings felt.  You can always be frank with me.

Let's hope both engineers get back safe and sound, but I still believe at this point at least one of them is going to get harmed in some way.  I was probing only one of the worst-case scenarios.

To many Americans, the Chinese are good guys.  To others, the only good Chinese are the dead ones.  Those were the ones who passed the Chinese Exclusion Act in 1882.  I am sure folks like you hate that one too, but what can you do?  

You know that both good and evil lurk inside or outside the Beltway in Silver Springs, Landover, Bethesda, Foresttville, and certainly on 1600 Pennsylvania Street.  Don't you?



Regards,

wchao37

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Post time 2004-10-13 03:01:29 |Display all floors

What kind of double standard is this?"

I'll upload the evidence in the next post.

After officially classifyiing them as "terrorists" on April 29, 2004, the U.S. government is allowing these folks to establish a 'government' in Washington, D.C.

Does that mean China should open an office for Native American freedom fighters in Beijing?  They have actually more legitimate grievances to redress with the "Great Whites."

Open you eyes and look at the real world, ladies and gents:

The whole purpose of this probe is to let them know we have thought about this possibility, and that they have better remove their stinking paws away from those two precious lives.

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Post time 2004-10-13 03:32:17 |Display all floors

Here's the evidence concerning the establishment of Xinjiang separatist 'governm

“东突流亡政府”日前在美国华盛顿举行记者招待会宣布成立。尽管参加招待会的记者寥寥无几,但是美国允许“东突”势力在华盛顿成立“流亡政府”,再一次显示了美国政府在反恐上的双重标准。

据悉,到目前为止,在美国的“东突分子”已增长到1000人左右,其中华盛顿地区就有近300人。

今年4月29日,美国国务院将“东突伊斯兰运动”组织列为国际恐怖主义组织,并禁止任何美国政府或私人机构为其提供任何形式的支持。这是美国继2002年8月首次承认“东突运动”为恐怖组织之后又一次将其正式列入恐怖组织名单。依照美国法律,所有的美国政府或私人机构都不得与这些组织合作或是提供资金支持。

有关专家认为,尽管美国政府将“东突”组织列为恐怖组织,但却又默许他们在美国成立“流亡政府”,反映了美国在反恐这个重大问题上的自相矛盾和双重标准。而“东突”问题今后也将成为骚扰中美关系的一个长期的刺激因素

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Post time 2004-10-13 11:47:41 |Display all floors

It takes time to connect the dots

I want to point out that at this moment it's quite difficult to have a complete definitive answers to everything. However, if we read the first post and ask some logic questions, it's not that difficult to see the logic sense behind it, some possibilities here.

Of course, we are collecting the dots and we need more time to connect them. As time goes, more information will come out too...

So keep an open mind ....

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Post time 2004-10-13 13:21:05 |Display all floors

An insistent but unproven statement by American media

An insistent but unproved statement by American media (and its friends) is that Chinese hostages are strapped with explosives. As of today, after Chinese foreign minister clearly said that there is no explosives attached to Chinese hostages, Washington Post is still making such a statement together with a conspicuous word “reported”, a quick Google search pointed a Kansas City Star (US) with such a loud title “Explosives Strapped to Chinese Hostages”.

What’s this for? 1st, telling Americans those Chinese didn’t get better treatment than American hostages; 2nd, let people know that the terrorists indiscriminately treated people terribly as if they were genetic terrorists. (while in reality, there are deep reasons..) 3rd, maybe also hope this could cause Chinese people to hate…

Is it true that Chinese hostages are strapped with explosives? While Pakistan news paper reported that Chinese hostages were handcuffed and trained Al Jazeera reported that Chinese hostages are treated humanely.

Should we put a question mark after American media?

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