Author: appleeater

China's top political advisor elected as head of national council [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2018-10-31 22:59:54 |Display all floors
huaqiao Post time: 2018-10-31 17:32
Not so true.

Firstly, CPC did try to pursue KMT immediately after winning the civil war in main ...
PLA was mainly a land army lacking naval and air support


Yet it did have manpower to send to Korea.

Someone else may have made the decision to let Korea be, and put those men (and women like in USA) to build ships and planes, so it would have what it lacked to take Taiwan.

China did not willfully support North Korea but was obliged to because during the civil war, North Korea supported the PLA


China was not obliged to help North Korea, and this is well documented in the historical accounts that remain of communication within PRC leadership during that era. Many in both the politburo and mlitary were against the idea, but were convinced by Peng Dehuai that if USA (even under UN mandate) takes Korea, it will invade China next. There was no obligation toward North Korea, but (possibly misplaced) self-interest.

And that legacy carries on. Whenever I debate Korean issue and possible Korean unification with Chinese, their argumentation ultimately always falls back to the same old "well we just don't want US (or even US allied) troops on our border".

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Post time 2018-11-1 10:05:36 |Display all floors
Liononthehunt Post time: 2018-10-31 17:47
The reason some politicos in Taiwan reject the One Country Two System is they don't want to lose t ...

Well, do you stand behind this earlier comment of yours or not?

Does the party insist on Taipei being governed by it in a unified China? If you are informed enough, you would know the answer is no. This is the definition of an "entity above any and all parties".


You cannot throw HK or Macao, or any current "One Cuntry, Two Systems" implementation as bone to Taiwanese, because HK and Macao are governed by the party. They can not choose their leaders without approval from the politburo in Beijing.

You need something else, and din my opinion such would be a real One China entity, that controls not only Taiwan but also Beijing and the party. But I have zero hope of the party accepting such.

because of the vibrant economic scene in the mainland, which is in contrast with the gloomy outlook in the island


Irrelevant to self-determination. Such things cannot be bought. Would you have accepted Japanese rule if they had given you a fortune? They did after all run factories and economy in China much more efficiently than the Chinese themselves after the war.

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Post time 2018-11-1 10:26:46 |Display all floors
Liononthehunt Post time: 2018-10-31 18:11
You fail to see the wisdom of China going to bat for DPRK, while putting Taiwan on the back burner ...
If North Korea was overrun by the US troops, then a direct military standoff between China and the US would be imminent on the borders.


I don't agree.

If China had not supported North Korea, Soviet Union would have been its only supporter, and USSR was much bigger monster to USA than China ever was or is.

China's determination to not interfere in Korea would have signaled to USA that they need to continue the alliance with China (that they had against Japan), against Soviet Union. And KMT certainly couldn't have done anything to that end from their islands.

With China then on USA's side against USSR, support financial and military would have flooded in the country from USA, and China's growth would have started 30-40 years earlier. China could have become the world's largest economy already by 1990. And that's even if PRC would have invaded Taiwan.

Not only that, but such alliance with a communist country would have been perceived in USA and Europe that communists aren't necessarily all evil. Earlier linking of China's economy to that of west would have prevented China's leaders to make mistakes that could jeoparize that relationship.

But of course none of that happened, and I have no problem blaming the early leaders of PRC for that lack of understanding the then-current geopolitical situation. In my opinion they played the wrong card, and that play had negative consequences both in China and elsewhere.

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Post time 2018-11-1 12:00:58 |Display all floors
This post was edited by pnp at 2018-11-1 12:23
loveChina1314 Post time: 2018-11-1 11:08
What China should do in earlier across-reunifications is to drift a Bill for discussions for the Tai ...

You don't speak like a Chinese!  The Chinese play by the long haul; they can wait decades or more to achieve their aim, unlike the Americans who try to get things done in 4 years while a certain president is in office!  That is why Trump is in serious trouble trying to force China to back down in his trade war; the tactics he used with Canada and Mexico don't work with China!!

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Post time 2018-11-1 12:54:13 |Display all floors
pnp Post time: 2018-11-1 12:00
You don't speak like a Chinese!  The Chinese play by the long haul; they can wait decades or more t ...

re: " the tactics he used with Canada and Mexico don't work with China!!"

  Roger on that one.
That's the reason why he's getting madder by the day!  Or should I say"more mad".

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Post time 2018-11-1 16:21:57 |Display all floors
Jaaja Post time: 2018-10-31 22:59
Yet it did have manpower to send to Korea.

Someone else may have made the decision to let Korea ...
Yet it did have manpower to send to Korea.


Because going to Korea is not difficult for land forces, which PLA was basically. I still believe China was obliged because in your own words below:

Many in both the politburo and mlitary were against the idea,


Peng Dehuai was assigned, based on my understanding. However, I agree that if US had taken over Korea, China would have to deal with US at the border which is not good. That could be the reason why the decision was made to help North Korea, despite being against the idea.

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Post time 2018-11-1 17:16:09 |Display all floors
huaqiao Post time: 2018-11-1 16:21
Because going to Korea is not difficult for land forces, which PLA was basically. I still believ ...

That was not my point. My point was that PRC leaders could have made their soldiers and civilians build the ships and planes so that they could take Taiwan in few years.

Staying out of Korea would have given them that time, because USA would have continued the WW2 alliance with China as alliance against Soviet Union, and probably even equipped PRC with those ships and planes to do that. Primarily to resist Soviet expansion, but as Truman had already stated, it would also not had interfered if PRC had taken Taiwan.

I agree that if US had taken over Korea, China would have to deal with US at the border


Why do you think that China would have had to deal with USA anywhere?

USA had far bigger threat from Soviet Union, and it would have done great compromises to make an ally of PRC against that threat. USA would not have gotten that support from war-devastated Korea or demilitarized Japan, and KMT was driven to small islands. PRC would have been their only choice.

I don't think that USA would have invaded China from the north-east, even if they had taken Korea but China had refused to offer support against Soviets. There is a pattern in all US expeditions that continues to this day - not to invade and occupy with your own troops, but have locals fight on their behalf and offer varying amount of support (sometimes troops, sometimes just money and weapons).

If USA had invaded China (that it had just saved from Japanese empire) in any other way than supporting KMT in Taiwan to continue the civil war, it would have been an political suicide equivalent of the North Korea's initial aggression toward South.

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