Author: WENGEWANG

Double Standards   [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2018-8-8 13:35:52 |Display all floors
robert237 Post time: 2018-8-7 23:38
So you're talking in circles again.

Well, that observation of yours serves as evidence to my claim how average american gets lost when presented more information than they can handle. Oversimplification of complex matters, which is something you frequently call for, is needed for that kind of people to get any news through - but the downside is that then almost any information becomes opinionated and can be manipulated to serve other purposes by whoever controls the information.

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Post time 2018-8-8 14:03:42 |Display all floors
WENGEWANG Post time: 2018-8-8 09:16
i dont think anyone is expecting cyber privacy in china. however, here is what no one is talking abo ...
here is what no one is talking about. when western leaders look at chinese surveilance, theyre most likely saying, "how can we do what the chinese are doing. how can we, as western leaders, ALSO keep tabs on western citizens". the west has been doing all the things that you mentioned


That only shows where you come from.

Majority of foreigners in west (and elsewhere) have zero interest in China, Chinese people, Chinese government, or Chinese surveillance. For them China is a word following "Made in" in their cheap goods, or term for cups in their cupboards.

And this extends to those who discuss issues of surveillance (cyber or other) in the west and western media. They may occassionally refer to China as an extreme example of that, but their main concern is what their own governments or corporations do (or don't do).

It is only on Chinese forums like this, that discussions circle around China - quite reasonably, since many of us are living in China or at least have some connection to the country. At the same time we originate from various different countries, rather than all being from USA, so we do not take "the west" as a single domain with exact same system.

You listed various examples of western governments and corporations collecting private information.

But you fail to acknowledge how most of it is meant to serve the public. Neutral facial expression in passport photos makes it easier and faster to queue in passport controls, or ID's required for airbnb (and others) is to increase safety of services provided under shared economy model.

Warrants may be easily given to police, but neverthless a warrent leaves documentation that it was done. It is that transparency that makes western surveillance often different from Chinese surveillance.

In context of China, what few mention is that beyond the state control for its own good, there are similar reasons to create better services to the public.

It should be important to disect that part of the equation. All countries practise some level of surveillance, how much of it is done to better services, and how much for other reasons, varies between countries. In my opinion it is only those "other reasons" that are worthy discussing.

For example, if somebody buys a SIM card in China, does the requirement for real name registration serve to provide better telecommunication services? For foreigners the experience is quite the contrary - most stores do not know how to process a foreign passport in the system, and refuse to sell phone cards to foreigners. The regulations therefore render the service completely inaccessible to them. Obviously service quality is not a factor behind this requirement.

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Post time 2018-8-8 14:48:52 |Display all floors
BlondeAmber Post time: 2018-8-7 16:15
there is a good chance that 'IT talents' are working for those responsible for 'fake news' on all  ...

Possible.

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Post time 2018-8-8 15:08:40 |Display all floors
Jaaja Post time: 2018-8-7 18:43
Fake and opinionated information cannot be prevented, but what might happen is that the IT (or w ...
In fact China as whole is a living example of that. Chinese state restricts access to information that it cannot control, and manipulates public with what remains.


I believe in control to a certain extent. An absolute free internet will be filled with lies, fake news,...etc. because it is allowed and there is no prevention mechanism in place. Many lies are disguised as "opinions" in the internet too. The right to opinion should not be a gateway for the right to lie. Another thing is just imagine a place without law and authority and people can go around killing everyone else or stealing and robbing at will. That is what the internet is like without a certain control. The virtual world should be treated the same as the real world, with the same laws and regulations in place.

In western world, more responsibility is put on readers digesting the information.


Not all readers digest the information properly. You might be familiar with Pavlov's behavioural theory. He trained a dog to behave in a certain manner with a certain queue until the dog does the action automatically when the queue is executed. In the same manner, a lie can be told daily and droned onto the public for a long period until the lie becomes the "truth". This can be done subtly without the public realising it. How do you think this can be prevented? With more freedom or with a certain amount of control like in the real world?

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Post time 2018-8-8 17:29:06 |Display all floors
Jaaja Post time: 2018-8-8 14:03
That only shows where you come from.

Majority of foreigners in west (and elsewhere) have zero i ...

does having a neutral facial expresion in driver license photo also make it faster to drive? come on man. what do you think you are talking to a bunch of 5yr olds here? they dont want you to smile because it messes with the facial recognition system. thats why they dont want you smiling. and the west was the first ones to do this. airbnb requiring id makes it safe. lol. man. thats what i call a generic excuse. that makes about as much sense as paypal freezing your account for "your own safety". no it couldnt be that paypal just wants to rob its customers. surveilance, and tracking is the number one reason for airbnb to collect ids. safety is just a distant possible side effect. airbnb collecting your id will not make you safe. thats the reason they give you, but i dont buy it

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Post time 2018-8-9 08:16:26 |Display all floors
jaja precisely proves my point. when china does something, it's surveilance. when the west does it, "it's for the security and well being of all"

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Post time 2018-8-9 11:39:26 |Display all floors
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