Author: abramicus

Is the Peshkov Martyrdom the Point of No Return?   [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2015-11-27 09:03:11 |Display all floors
KIyer Post time: 2015-11-27 07:27
with the level of technology available on both sides, any malfunction or error is not likely. There  ...


Turkey is (well it is Thanksgiving Day, isn't it) just a user of advanced technology and merely knows how to use it, without knowing its hangups and backdoors, so it would not be wise for Russia to presume that the incident has to be due to human factors almost entirely.  If the message were delayed by a mere 10 seconds, and was started by the Turkish pilots 10 seconds into the supposed incursion of the Russian plane into Turkish air space, then the Russian pilots would never have heard it, but the Turkish pilots could honestly say they did say it, just as an example.  Unless Turkey and Russia agree to test these planes for glitches, this possibility has not been ruled out.

Similarly, if the reception of radio messages by the Russian plane were delayed or blocked by some internal or external factors, the outcome would be the same.

Given the complexity of stealth and anti-stealth technology, the blocking of radio waves would not be hard to do, and could be programmed into the circuits of either side, or could be induced on their circuits with a minimum of external manipulation.

In any case, this is not a cut-and-dried case of Turkish betrayal or Russian boorishness, even if it is portrayed by the mainstream media as such a kind of FALSE DICHOTOMY.  Alternative explanations exist that demand testing, which is what the Turks and the Russians need to do, to put the whole matter to rest.  If Turkey refuses to allow such an inquiry to proceed, then by implication, it had really something to hide, and could be considered complicit in the act, even if it is not the principal.

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Post time 2015-11-27 11:36:20 |Display all floors
It was a stab in the back.

"Interviews military expert, constant author of the magazine "Arsenal of the Fatherland", a specialist in the use of the Military Space Forces Alexei Leonkova

Alexei Petrovich, Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin called the unprovoked attack on a Turkish fighter Russian aircraft returns to base after the attack on the position of LIH, "stab in the back". Do you agree with this assessment?
How can you argue with the president? But I think that he is also commonly understood meaning of this phrase, it meant an additional meaning. The analysis shows that the attack on the Su-24M2 Russian VKS was pre-planned by Turkey and its military partners. In this case, we are talking about the operation, "Backstab".
Indeed, our plane is waiting in ambush Turkish interceptors on land located sabotage and reconnaissance groups, disguised as local Turkomans were previously imported crews CNN and FOX ...
This is only a tactical software finals. The operation started much earlier. Throughout the period of the Russian VKS - Exploration of the NATO countries are not sitting idly by. The actions of our aviation was conducted by means of continuous monitoring of space, air and ground intelligence. In the attack he was involved in several complex reconnaissance and target - at least 3, and two F-16 with the latest missiles AIM-9X.
How it all happened?
US Air Force Boeing E-3 Sentry AWACS flew November 24 from an air base in Preveza in Greece. Second Air Force E-3A Saudi Arabia took off from an airbase Riyadh. Both aircraft carried out one common task - to determine the exact locations of aircraft videoconferencing Russia. They are also chosen "victim."
American E-3A was to determine the mode of weapon control radar of the Su-24M2, to check whether it is able to search or seizure has already completed and accompanied by the goal, producing data for firing. It is known that can control the actions of AWACS aircraft in combat and transfer of avionics and aircraft information to the NCP of warfare.
That is, to determine how helpless our plane?
It turns out that, yes. As you know, the Su-24M2 was returning from a mission, and his NCP worked in the "navigation" in conjunction with GLONASS, he walked to the base and is not ready to take action. E-3 all the time passed details of the Su-24M2 pair patrol Turkish F-16CJ. This aircraft is specially produced for Turkey. Its feature is the presence of the computer, run the new radar AN / APG-68 and fulfill the role of co-pilot, navigator.
But this information is not enough to enter the high-speed target. I used something else?
Indeed, output precision fighter F-16CJ further provides ground-based US Patriot air defense, stationed in Turkey, or rather their multifunctional radar AN / MPQ-53. Patriot air defense system can work with the E-3 electronic reconnaissance satellites and MENTOR, it is possible that the satellite constellation was more SC "GEOSTAT."
The flight path F-16CJ talking about precision output to the target by the method of triangulation: a pair of E-3A radar plus the Patriot air defense system plus RER MENTOR geostationary satellites, and possibly the SC "GEOSTAT."

At the same time the E-3 was allowed to indicate where our aircraft in the air is determined by its train, speed, status of weapons control, radar air defense system Patriot conjunction with the satellite signals intelligence MENTOR provide telemetry Movement Su-24M2 to the ground - that is, gave an accurate forecast sector appearance of our the aircraft relative to the mountainous terrain.
It turns out that Turkish fighter exactly know where our plane waiting in ambush?
Of course. A pair of F-16CJ went to the area of start-up and at a distance of 4-6 kilometers, almost at point blank range (!) Let the missile "air-to-air» AIM-9X Sidewinder in the rear hemisphere Russian bomber. This radar AN / APG-68 fighter jet launched a rocket operates on a "target illumination": Turn at start-up and shut off after the rocket firm grip and hit the target.
I did our pilots the ability to save the plane?
No. Chance to avoid defeat at the Su-24M2 crew were zero.
Against missiles AIM-9X with a new matrix infrared seeker, the imaging target in the infrared range, and insensitive to heat trap, the Su-24M2 is no counter systems. His means of countering: BKO "Carpathians", the station warning radar illumination ACT-15C teplopelengator LO-82 to detect missile launches, the station posing jamming SPS-161, the device release chaff and false thermal purposes AMS-50 - can not confront new missile AIM-9X.
And if there was support for the fighters?
Now it will be. Of course, the tragedy could have been prevented pair of Su-30cm, have adopted BKO "Hibiny-In." But no one was waiting to strike back against an ally, especially warning about the details of the operation of our partner.
You mean the "American partners", most of those who belong to the "Patriots" and "AWACS", as well as satellites, possibly involved in the operation?
Yes, with a high degree of probability. No Turkey's own capacity for such meticulous and very precise work. And do not forget the second the E-3, assigned to the Air Force KSA. The whole scenario quite fleeting, the score went to second.
Is everything went so smoothly?

The Turks still make a mistake, because of the provocation which is not entirely successful. F-16CJ took to defeat late in 2 minutes, when the Su-24M2 has already left the station 68 km disputed territory in northern Syria (its flight it took 1.5 minutes maximum). Team "defeat» F-16CJ not canceled, so the missile launch was carried out a little further calculation point. This is confirmed by the fact that shooting the fall of the Su-24M2 was planned as from the territory of Syria, and with Turkey, but "Syrian" pictures in more detail. It seems that it saved and our navigator. He was able to go to the "Zelenka" and wait for the search party there.
Interviewed expert of the Commission on Security MHD Dmitry Efimov"

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Post time 2015-11-27 12:53:57 |Display all floors
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Post time 2015-11-27 15:17:16 |Display all floors
This post was edited by abramicus at 2015-11-27 15:30


Holy smokes, this is getting serious.  If true, WW3 may just be around the corner.  Hope all this talk is mere speculation.  Question is, how would the Russians know such details and yet fail to guide their own pilot out of harm's way?  Was its own line of command compromised?  And if so, Russia is in deeper trouble than it thinks.
Or, is Forsberg into disinformation, to hide the technical aspect of the miscommunication in the name of "proving" it was all intentional and due to human factors?  If you want a misunderstanding to lead to a rupture and even war, you cannot stop at merely inciting both sides to righteous anger.  You have to completely negate any possibility of a technological glitch, software manipulation, or external electronic interference with this critical communication . . .

Of the mystery of the missing ten messages from the Turkish pilots - when were they issued, did they get transmitted, and was it in a form that could be received by the Russian pilot?  Was there a glitch in the Russian plane instead, or did the pilot turn off the radio by mistake or on purpose, to enhance his stealth, maybe?

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Post time 2015-11-27 18:04:39 |Display all floors
Kbay Post time: 2015-11-27 17:16
Col. Peshkov was shot while descending in his parachute, by presumably non-ISIS terrorists,

Obama, ...

Obama stupid?

You really are a silly bear

In 1979 Obama went to Occidental College, in 1981 he transferred to Columbia University where he majored in political science with a specialization in international relations and graduated with a B.A. in 1983. In 1988 Obama went to Harvard Law School where he became editor of the Harvard Law Review, he graduated with a Juris Doctor magna cum laude in 1991. in 1991 Obama became a Visiting Law and Government Fellow at the University of Chicago Law School, in 1992 he became a full professor at University of Chicago Law School teaching constitutional law till 2004       

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Post time 2015-11-27 18:39:50 |Display all floors
abramicus Post time: 2015-11-27 15:17

Russia supplied US/NATO with all flight data prior to the mission in order to avoid any incidents. The crew in the SU-24 did not expect any hostile aircrafts in the area, after all they are presumably fighting the same enemy, ISIS that is.

The copilot that survived claim that they never had any radio communication or warning of any sort and Turkey has not provided any recordings of any communication between the aircrafts but claims what is circulating on the internet is false.

It was a delibarate attack and questions remains as of who ordered the attack and for what purpose?

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Post time 2015-11-28 02:14:43 |Display all floors
mikaelforsberg Post time: 2015-11-27 18:39
Russia supplied US/NATO with all flight data prior to the mission in order to avoid any incidents. ...

To be honest, this has all the flavor of a Hollywood scripted Bond movie, with the object, not the destruction of a plane, but of a strategic relationship worth a thousand times greater.

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