Author: sunnylin01

Japan on the eve of WWII   [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2013-12-15 13:57:29 |Display all floors
lebeast Post time: 2013-12-15 10:28
I thought you knew

He was behind the camera

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Post time 2013-12-15 14:41:27 |Display all floors
This post was edited by huaren2323 at 2013-12-15 15:15
shengshi Post time: 2013-12-15 13:08
What does move on mean? When Japanese politicians really apologize like former German Chancellor W ...

I am sorry to hear of your loss specially someone so dear as your grandparents and years of destitute of your mother. My maternal grandparents perished too and hate can see no bounds. I hear stories from my uncles that hunted down Japanese soldiers at night or even after Liberation, tortured them and ate them beginning with their thighs, then hamstring just to keep them alive before they feasts on their liver and hearts.

As I matured, I now know that these are not justifiable and humanly acts and made them as much of an animal as their tormentors were.

Studying societal conditioning that Tojo Japan did, The Nazi Germany, and the Stalin era did with their own people based on antagonism/adversity did not do them well.

The witch hunt of of the Mao era is just as brutal and even more so because it was directed against this former comrades in arms. It became worse in the Cultural Revolution that children were encourage to turn against their parents not to mention against colleagues they at one time or the other felt mistreated.  

Zhang Zhixin 张志新 was jailed , tormented, sent to a male jail to be raped, and ended up totally insane before having her bound, impaled, and beheaded in Shenyang in 1979 for daring to speak out against the cultural revolution and defying Qiang Qing and by extension Mao. Her tormentors succeeded in breaking her into insanity that at some point she was using her mentrual blood to eat with her food.

The cycle of hate driving societal or communal consciousness can only lead to unhappy end not just for the intended victim but also for the perpetrators. You can still feel the presence of this kind of irrationality in the Chinese psyche of the 1970's generation that is below the surface in China, without correcting which China can rot from within despite her material success. Her materail success is actually a dangerous catch 22. It can implode China and break China from within if the moral fiber are not in place.

I am not advocating that Chinese should lay down their guard or tolerate bull shit piled on them by anyone even USA or Japan but that the moral and humane basis must be upheld so that as we move forward we create a better generation of rationale and civil society that would be respected by friends and enemies alike. Who can respect Chinese if we Chinese do not respect each other? In order to do this I think we need to shed our hatred and replaced it with what will make us become better than our enemy in way beyond the weaponry into philosophy of life and rules of conduct becoming of a civilized society. USA has the most advnced weaponry in the world but from its moral heights after world war 2, they have sunk so low in the yes of the world that they are hated in many places today that the lack of moral and civility that dominates thier actions today.
Developing a strong defense against any potential intruder is necessary. I trained my family in all weapons and combat skills not to attacked but be ready to defend. So I would expect this for China. I understand why the Air Defense Zone, the maritime zone are set up which China has every right to do so. But then Japan has to do the same rights too for defense so does South Korea. It is then left for the two nation to dialogue and arrive at peaceful accommodation because War will do no good for anyone.

Can you imagine Malaysia and Indonesia severely choke the traffic of the Straits of Malacca and claimed it as their exclusive zone of defense and commerce? The leadership that instituted this will be assassinated in no time by invisible hands.

Again , I do accept the valiidiity of your angst. I am just struggling to see how One can resolve this for future's sake of our own children and that of our neighbors. We should refrain from worrying about war among us humans. The climate, disease and natural disaster shall be more effective and up close that shall cull the excessive humanities on this earth.

Remember that the most recent murderers of Chinese are in Indonesia as recent as 1997 where ethnic Chinese were systematically targeted, their homes and businesses looted and burnt and their women raped and killed. For what? Suharto's son in Law Prabowo launched an unsuccessful palace coup and using the riots against Chinese as semblance of disorder so his Kompasus ( Elite Palace Guard) can move in. This guy Prabowo is running for President in 2014!! Compared to them, the modern Japanese are every much more docile and no matter how much warmongering Abe can do, the majority of Japanese will not go as far as Tojo Japan as they are well fed, well educated, ensconced with modern conveniences and are linked into lightning speed information.

I would worry more about China getting organized militarily, socially and morally first that they do not become the monsters that they detest.

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Post time 2013-12-15 17:51:14 |Display all floors
huaren2323 Post time: 2013-12-15 15:41
I am sorry to hear of your loss specially someone so dear as your grandparents and years of destitu ...

It's Sunday evening and I've a bit of time. Permit me to reply to some of your statements. Of course this is my own opinion and I do not say that it's the correct version to see history (past), present and the future:
  1. Studying societal conditioning that Tojo Japan did, The Nazi Germany, and the Stalin era did with their own people based on antagonism/adversity did not do them well.

  2. The witch hunt of of the Mao era is just as brutal and even more so because it was directed against this former comrades in arms. It became worse in the Cultural Revolution that children were encourage to turn against their parents not to mention against colleagues they at one time or the other felt mistreated.  
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I firmly believe that the Mao era is different from the war loving military-fascist Tojo regime, Nazi Germany or the bloody Stalin era. I do not believe that Mao ordered to kill millions of people just for fun or out of racist motivation. Suffering and victims of famine (the great leap forward), the cultural revolution or even natural disasters cannot be lined-up together with the holocaust, purges of millions under Stalin or murderous acts of the Tojo clique and its soldiers in continental China, Korea and SE Asia.
As far as the CR is concerned the question must be allowed whether Mao was really in control of everything that happened. I would also recommend not to compare horrible single cases, as such actions  happened not only in China but even in western countries. If we do this then we'll reach a point where we cannot stop to count all the crimes which were committed in the name of democracy and fight against  communism (Spain under Franco, Portugal under Salazar, Chile under Pinochet etc. etc. etc.) They were all bastards but loved by the U.S. because they were their bastards.
  1. I understand why the Air Defense Zone, the maritime zone are set up which China has every right to do so. But then Japan has to do the same rights too for defense so does South Korea. It is then left for the two nation to dialogue and arrive at peaceful accommodation because War will do no good for anyone.
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Yes, Japan has the same right to establish an ADIZ. They did this already 40 years ago and enlarged it almost every decade by several hundred thousand of km2. Dialogue with Japan now and in forseable future is impossible. How can someone talk to another party if this party denies there is conflict although the whole world can see the conflict. In meantime I believe that talks will only take place after Abe, Aso, Ododera, Ishiba & Co. have gone. Japan's politics are delusional and full of China hatred. Never since WWII was so much hatred spread officially. Just read the Japanese press - incl. weekly magazines (now already under self control without an own opinion) and you will understand what I mean.
  1. the majority of Japanese will not go as far as Tojo Japan as they are well fed, well educated, ensconced with modern conveniences and are linked into lightning speed information.
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Japan is descending, no doubt about it. Let us wait some more time. The Yen has lost more than 40% within one year (vs. the EUR). Imports are becoming very expensive and there is no hope for solid salary increases. The number of homeless is on the rise and the distribution of Abenomics is benefiting only the rich and super rich. The face of the country is rapidly changing and if it enters the TPP (hope is that it will not) welfare for many people will go down the pit. But this is another story probably worth to comment on in a couple of months.

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Post time 2013-12-15 22:29:22 |Display all floors
satsu_jin Post time: 2013-12-15 17:51
It's Sunday evening and I've a bit of time. Permit me to reply to some of your statements. Of cour ...

Thank You Satsu-sama for enlightening and expanding on some of the points I made. I do not read Niponggo so I do appreciate your viewpoint as the grassroots Japanese would see it on the ground that I missed even as I regularly travel through Tokyo.

The other viewpoints are just as valid and well taken. Arigato kusaimasita ありがとう.

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Post time 2013-12-16 01:00:02 |Display all floors
huaren2323 Post time: 2013-12-15 14:41
I am sorry to hear of your loss specially someone so dear as your grandparents and years of destitu ...

You presented some well-thought out opinions. Thank you for that.

I just wanted to ask you, what do you really think about the "moral fiber" of modern China? can it still be saved? I'm not as optimistic as you on that front. Simply because every year, every month, we see less and less of that in China. The last 20-30 years have basically shown the Chinese that corruption works and that the "me, me, me mentality" is the way to go. This has become the "system" now and it's the most difficult aspect to change. It would need an utter reorganization of China, which basically would mean the end of China as we know it (I'm trying to phrase it so my comment doesn't get blocked, if you understand my point).
do to others as you would have them do to you

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Post time 2013-12-16 06:07:52 |Display all floors
This post was edited by lostfornames at 2013-12-16 06:31

Thanks for telling this part of the Japanese history, it's interesting to see that they were some who did try to stop the war seeing past the short term looting whether out of moral consciousness or judgements, and realizing that the war will pay no dividend but inflict a heavy lost on Japan in the end.

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Post time 2013-12-16 06:27:11 |Display all floors
Lets not forget during this period there were still some turncoats who would side with the other party even when their own country are being looted from within. Some are even married with Japanese spouses who found great benefits and wealth in having Japan loot their country. The lack of any moral guidance in the name of personal fortunes, and baseless debauchery, and the lack of any spiritual identity or personal pride, would see these people betray their own flesh and blood just to enhance their own status. If only they could carry all those wealth and materials they looted from others to the grave.

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