Author: mpc1999

Why is it wrong to visit the Yasukuni Shrine !! [Copy link] 中文

Rank: 4

Post time 2005-5-27 02:12:26 |Display all floors

What is wrong with the visits?? This perhaps!!

The main Issue japanese citizens should be unhappy about is that the visitis to Yasukuni Shrine by Koizumi clearly contradicts the principal of Seperation of State and Religion.

As PM in office, Koizumis actions are considered as actions of the state...does he forget this??

Visiting and praying at a Shinto shrine is an act of worship to the Sun goddess - the creator of japan. Though minor gods live in the shrines themselves. (doesnt matter whos remains are on the grounds)

Shinto is Nationalistic by nature;The emperor is the Sun goddess incarnate, worship of the emperor is equivalent to worship of the sungoddess. Shinto is seen as the fuel for the ultra-nationalism which drove the Japanese military machine.

It is for this reason that separtion of the state from religion is stipulated in the post-war constitution.

Though visiting any national monument is OK for the PM, it should not be a place of religion.
But it is complicated as showing respect to the country is done best thru Shinto. In other countries you can be patriotic without saying a prayer!

I have visited that shrine twice, im not japanese. It serves many different purposes and is a great place of history for a visitor. Its normal practice to toss acoin and say a quick prayer at any shinto shrine.....I prayed for peace....did anyone ask Koizumi what he prayed for??

On a different note;

Also note that in the past, theonly time an apology was heard from a PM in japan was shortly before they left their jobs!
Whatsmore the apology is always made as an individual and not as PM and not as a  part of national policy.
(This excuse was made by Koizumi recently to justify the shrine visit)

But remember japan is facing a long economic downturn. Any country becomes more Nationalistic in such times. Koizumi is winning many browny points for ignoring the outrage from other countries.....
(State sovereignty means one country cannot meddle in the domestic affairs of another)

The recent activity to promote territorial rights is also troublemaking to increase the domestic profile of Ishihara Shintaro  - who, last time I was in Japan- organised the self defence force to drive their tanks and vehicles thru the elite shopping district Ginza. This shocked everyone!
It was a publicity stunt..as is all politics

So even if some citizens are complaining about the visits, they will be easily influenced with a little nationalistic pep-talk if it means becoming stronger again!

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Post time 2005-5-27 11:00:43 |Display all floors

What is wrong ....

"The main Issue japanese citizens should be unhappy about is that the visitis to Yasukuni Shrine by Koizumi clearly contradicts the principal of Seperation of State and Religion."

Honouring of the dead does not always fall under 'religion'.

"As PM in office, Koizumis actions are considered as actions of the state...does he forget this??"

It's a private visit, so he says.

"Also note that in the past, theonly time an apology was heard from a PM in japan was shortly before they left their jobs! "

That is not correct if you look at the 18 apologies rendered so far.

"Whatsmore the apology is always made as an individual and not as PM and not as a part of national policy. "

So the apology was made as an individual, but the shrine visits can not be made as an individual. There is some illogic here.

"Koizumi is winning many browny points for ignoring the outrage from other countries....."

That is wrongly phrased. However, he does try to please the right and we should expect more of the same.

"State sovereignty means one country cannot meddle in the domestic affairs of another"

We we do it all the time. And at the same time ask other countries not to interfere in our internal affairs.

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Post time 2005-5-27 19:54:09 |Display all floors

Reply To HK yan

HK Yan,

I do not understand what your opinion actually is....you did not really say if you agree or disagree with the visits......well, thats ok I guess

I think you have misunderstood some of my posting....

When the PM is in ACTIVE OFFICE , all his actions are considered as being representitive of his Party and/or government.

Therefore visits to the shrine should be considered official and apologies made should also be seen as official.
If the PM says he is acting as an individual then he is fooling his own people as well as the international community ,and is not accepting responsibility for his own actions.

If you also look at the 18 apologies closely im sure you will find that at least 50% of apologies were made by out-going PMs.....

Though it can be argues that Shinto itself is not a true religion as it has no official doctrines ....lets agree that worship of the dead is a Spiritual practice and praying at a Shinto shrine is infact a religious practice!

Perhaps you misunderstand the use of the phrase "browny points"
This sentence means that if the PM ignores the wishes of China etc, he gains more support from his own country members , especially the right wing.

Koizumis actions over the last year demonstrate that he is more and more sympathetic to the Right Wing.  
This move marks the end of his career...he will become temporarily popular but cannot get full support over the long term

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Post time 2005-5-28 11:47:09 |Display all floors

honestly

honestly, I don't really have an opinion on the visits. In fact, I don't really care as the whole matter is completely out of proportion.

We all know that Kouzumi is certainly not honoring war criminals. That there are 14 or so (out of 2.5mio) is sad, but can't unfortunately not be avoided.

However, that the emperor itself refuses to visit Yasukuni does proof that the visits are even in Japan highly controversial.

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Post time 2005-5-28 14:19:10 |Display all floors

The shrine shouldn't matter...

Either way, the shrine shouldn't matter. All it is is the ashes of people buried there with a Torii gate who fought in wars that also included killing thousands of souls of other people. If people want to preserve true history, isn't Yasukuni a good thing?  One of the faults of the criticisms of the shrine is that people say that the shrine glorifies the Class A war dead. Now can we ask those people, do you honestly believe thousands of Japanese people visit the shrine each year just to say "Awesome, you killed thousands of Chinese people. Let's hope for more..."? The problem (likve mpc1999 says) is through translation. The word jinjya is closest to the word Shrine, but it still loses it's meaning. It is like saying gambare isn't exactly mean to try hard.

Another is the separation of Church and state which Leijierong was saying. I agree with that concept, but that concept implies that laws and governence of a country shouldn't be based on religious order and laws unless ruled in the best for humanity (like outlawing murder). The Prime Minister of Japan should be allowed visit the shrine if he wants. It doesn't have to do anything with the Japanese government message. It is like saying a politician is hurting diplomatic relations with  Israel because he publicly eats a ham sandwich (eating ham is not Kosher), or a gay politician is chilling ties with Italy because the main religion is Roman Catholicism. A person should be allowed to choose to practice his/her religion.

I think people should focus on bigger issues in the Sino-Japanese conflicts such as the repartriation payments, Senkaku/Diaoyu islands, even the textbook issues... They have a bigger precidence over a person that visits a grave. It's time Chinese and Japanese politicians focus on the more important issues listed above.

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Post time 2005-5-28 15:48:14 |Display all floors

The shrine matter

Wheelbarrow

The Japanese government under PM Koizumi is trying to make excuse by letting us think the shrine is just a church or a grave.

In fact it is not. If you look at history, and especially how they use the shrine during war time, and the visit by Emperor. You will get a fuller picture.

Koizumi visit Yasukuni Shrine in the name of government. That is something different from, if he visit as an individual. He means something….

Japanese politicians know the meaning. That is why Japanese Emperor never visited the Shrine since 1945, and no Japanese PM visited in the name of the government until PM Nakasone. He too, knew the meaning of his action, that once he acknowledged protest from China and Korea, he stopped.

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Post time 2005-6-3 04:43:40 |Display all floors

hm

i feel it is in itself rather suspicious that they should still include the names of the war criminals 'til this day. if they truly felt sincere about the atrocities made , then why not eradicate all remnants of  the war criminals from the shrine?

or perhaps this is another hypocrisy syndrome also exhibited by the americans, to act as if Benjamin Franklin, Abraham Lincoln, and Andrew Jackson were some type of Gods of freedom when they themselves either owned slaves and/or failed to sincerely carry out their idealistic mumbo jumbo. (for example: the KKK is still active after 100+ years after the Civil War)

frankly i still believe that the japanese are reluctanct to feel any honest grief over any of it. it seems that it is in their nature to take joy in their delusions of grandeur. even anime/manga, which children frequently read contain profuse violence and rape. so what more can we expect? things these are part of their barbaric nature. afterall, japanese are decendants of Turks and Mongols... eg. Barbarians.

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