Ling's arrest a vital lesson for officials

pnp

Newtown Post time: 2015-7-27 16:41
This column is in the "China Daily", most articles such as this one are about China. That's why I  ...

'some governments past and present may have toppled and fallen."

It's to be hoped that the Japanese government of warmongering Shinzo Abe be toppled by the mass street potests!

Newtown

huaqiao Post time: 2015-7-28 11:58
You claim that you have stayed in China for years but that doesn't mean you know everything about  ...

Even if you were a Chinese person who had lived for a long time in China would that qualify you to "know everything" about this country ? It doesn't appear stop many Chinese people commenting about nations such as USA despite the fact that they've never been there. Should they be barred from voicing their opinions on any matters outside of China's borders ?

Indeed I do see things from my own "individualistic" perspective - are not you also an individual or do you have some magical capacity to voice the ( presumably uniform ) voice of more than one billion Chinese people ? If so could you please describe the point of view of the Fuzhou fisherman or any of the other folk I previously mentioned ? Or aren't people of such diverse backgrounds allowed the possibility of individual thought, this must be subsumed by conforming to the normative mass of China's huge population ? Should indeed everyone go back to wearing military style uniforms and waving little red books to expunge any show of individuality amongst the populace ?

"People like you think you know best even if you do not." And how do you know any better ? Are you any "better" than I simply by saying that is the case without a breath of evidence to support such a contention ?

"What works best for other countries may not be good for China..." Indeed but under the "one country, two systems" policy, Hong Kong has been allowed a degree of freedom and, dare I say it, individual expression which sets it significantly apart from the mainland. Thus there have been prolonged protests and demonstrations by several thousand Hong Kongers exercising their right to show their displeasure towards Beijing. Name me an occasion when such anti-national government protests have been allowed on the mainland.

"You have to have your say, even if it doesn't make sense or is not workable." What is more "workable" - ancient fables about frogs ? If you don't want me to have my say would that make you happier to return to a world of complete censorship which depended upon a prohibition of any viewpoint which was different to your own ? And please describe which points I have made don't make any sense or which are unworkable.

Newtown

pnp Post time: 2015-7-28 12:38
'some governments past and present may have toppled and fallen."

It's to be hoped that the Japane ...

Shinzo Abe has been twice elected Prime Minister of Japan in 2012 and 2014. It would slightly premature if not presumptuous to expect that he will not maintain that position for a good while to come.

huaqiao

Newtown Post time: 2015-7-29 16:28
Even if you were a Chinese person who had lived for a long time in China would that qualify you to ...

Let's not pick on the nitty gritty. There is no point going on like this. Your point is that every individual must have a voice and have the right to choose their government. Fine enough. However, we are all different individuals who live in a community amongst other people. To live peacefully, there must be some compromises. If one is to enforce his/her beliefs on others, there will be confrontation. Expect that.

You come from an environment where you are taught that communism is evil and only "democracy" is good. Isn't that the same as "wearing military style uniforms and waving little red books to expunge any show of individuality"? You could not even tell me what democracy is and yet you blindly promote it. There is a saying that goes like this which I will paraphrase: Before you remove the speck from another's eyes, remove the log/beam in your own first. Furthermore, what brings peace to people to allow them to live a good life is not a change of political ideology but good governence. Without good governence, the people will suffer, regardless of what political ideology they have. Look around the world and see for yourself.

You ask me whether I can describe the view of the Fuzhou fisherman. Well, I can't now but if I want to, I will go to live with them, immerse myself in that environment, remove whatever prejudice I have about them, learn about them and I will make some progress and see from their perspective. You claim to have lived many years in China and yet you have failed to do that. You have kept your own prejudice based on your indoctrination about "democracy" and dogmatically hold on to it without fully understanding it. How can you then suggest what is good for Hong Kong or China? I am not saying you can't voice your opinion but you have to expect to be challenged. This reminds me of "freedom of speech".

"Freedom of speech" comes with full responsibility. You can't just say what you want and get away with it. I know many people think that way. Irresponsible speeches have caused chaos, misunderstandings and confusions. Do you want that for China or you just don't care?

Your point of contention is that individual rights prevails whatever the outcome and Hong Kong must have that against China mainland. My stand is that this kind of attitude brings no peace and welfare for the people but only selfishness and strife. We live in a world of people with different personalities, beliefs and habbits and there is no "one-size-fits-all" solution--only compromise.

Newtown

huaqiao Post time: 2015-7-30 12:36
Let's not pick on the nitty gritty. There is no point going on like this. Your point is that every ...

A few points: I didn't grow up believing "communism was evil", I didn't live in a communist country so how could I have had the perspective of being in a country governed very differently from my own ? Thus, I had no log or beam to remove from my eye regarding any such bias or antipathy towards China. In fact for a good many years of my youth China maintained a closed door policy to the rest of the world and few outsiders would have had any clues as to what was going on there.

You said you were willing to immerse yourself into the shoes of the ( Fuzhou ) fisherman. Do you, without looking it up on google, have any idea what this connects to in western countries ? I have been to that city several times so I have at least some first hand contact and communication with Fuzhou people, I know something about their traditional culture, their history, their many various dialects, their horrible aggressive traffic conditions, and their great love of seafood. I have witnessed many different places and people in China so that indeed one size does not fit all yet that in fact is the structure of the Chinese government: one party which forms the vast majority of politicians who are not elected by universal suffrage. Likewise the "one size fits all" clearly does not have the support of many Hong Kong people as they boldly reject what the party in Beijing wishes to impose upon them. "One country, two systems" : the HK people do indeed want a different system, they don't want to conform to the size or shape of the fake democracy which BJ prefers.

Hong Kong has already enjoyed excellent governance and economic development under the aegis of British control. There is no reason why it cannot have similar conditions under a system of real democratic government which is very different to the alien "one" under which mainland China is currently governed.

huaqiao

Newtown Post time: 2015-7-30 20:13
A few points: I didn't grow up believing "communism was evil", I didn't live in a communist countr ...

I think you are not being honest here. I know for sure that "communism" is a dirty word in the west. This term is associated with any thing that is bad and wicked. You don't have to go anywhere to learn that. Even so, there was the Soviet Union to contend with during the cold war so you definitely have been indoctrinated.

You have been to Fuzhou several times but come out knowing very little. The chinese government does not practise "one-size-fits-all" but "one-party-rule-all", which is another form of governing. What you are trying to do is make China conform to your ideology without considering whether it is suitable for China or not. You are twisting the meaning of my "one-size-fits-all". Why do you insists that universal suffrage is the only way? Even if Hong Kong attains universal suffrage, would it guarantee wellbeing for the people? The fact that you keep insisting on "true democracy" shows that you have been seriously indoctrinated. Your prejudice is so great that it prevents you from seeing other possibilities of government. It also prevents you from seeing the fallacy of "true democracy". How can you be even sure all Hong Kong people want universal suffrage?

Hong Kong has enjoyed economic properity under British rule but during that time, the people could not even vote for the governor. They had no choice but to accept whoever was put in charge of them. Why do you say Hong Kong has "enjoyed excellent governance" when the governor was not "democratically" elected? This shows you have double standard. Your grudge against China is evidently clear here. Your purpose here is not to discuss but to criticise China without valid evidence. You are an example of the negative aspect of "freedom of speech".