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nosferatu (nosferatu)
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China: Economic Superpower

Interesting Western article on China's status as an economic superpower.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,465007,00.html

Edit addition:

Try this link

http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel

and find this article:

February 27, 2007, 02:01 PM

RED CHINA, INC.
Does Communism Work After All?
China is securing an ever-bigger share of the world market with the methods of a planned economy. Competitors and economists alike are astounded by the country's seemingly unstoppable march to becoming a global economic superpower. The development has left many wondering: Does communism work after all? By Andreas Lorenz and Wieland Wagner more...

[ Last edited by nosferatu at 2007-3-1 04:11 AM ]

2007-3-1 12:39 AM

mengzhi (mengzhi)
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The sneeze and the cold.

Dear nosferatu,

Your link does not work. Of course China is starting to take her place in the economic stage and her rightful place in the sun. China does not need such meaningless labels such as  military or economic " superpower ". She is just a factor, an influence and a partner. Two things are apparent from this world shaking stock market bump, triggered by the Shanghai bourse :

*1.  China has arrived. When Chinese sneeze, some others catch cold too.

*2.  The premature predictions that the Chinese economy is about to crash ( The Economist circa '92) is unfounded.

Who among the West's " gurus and experts " predicted the rise and rise of China over the past decades ? None. The army of prophets of doom are too cowardly to come forward to say " I was wrong ". Such is life.

2007-3-1 03:49 AM

nosferatu (nosferatu)
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Reply #2 --- mengzhi's post...

1.  See edit changes in my original post.

2.  Your response is interesting.  While you were not able to access the link, my short comment should have given you the overall positive slant of the article I was referencing.

The fact that your reply was basically, "We know we are good and don't need anyone else to tell us.  Take back your insult."  demonstrates that you have a 'chip on your shoulder'  and cannot accept any congratulations or thanks for the nation and people of China.

Do you have any friends?  A wife/girlfriend?  A real job?  Any real purpose in life that motivates you to get up in the morning and go out to face life every day?

2007-3-1 04:19 AM

mengzhi (mengzhi)
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Cease that superiority approach.

Dear nosferatu,

I have a huge number of friends thank you. I am not a two-headed monster simply because I do not care much for the superior pontifications and lectures from the self appointed moral police ? I am too assertive , you mean ?

China has been pilloried, laughed at , ridiculed and giggled at for decades. There are no laws , no standards, but plenty of corruption and inferior goods made by children and prisoners. We have had to endure such taunts, tease and terrible predictions as we tried so hard to pull overselves up by the boot straps. Now we have made it, there is surprise and envy . There is also anger that we dared to be so successful without your " help ". I would hate to see where we would be now if you were " helping " us. More like helping yourselves to the loot.

Stop being personal if you can nos. You seem more intelligent and educated than that .

As to my " real job " . I am currently unemployed and deemed unemployable. Do you have an opening for my talents ?

2007-3-1 08:26 AM

emucentral (JB)
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QUOTE:

Originally posted by mengzhi at 2007-3-1 05:49
*1. China has arrived. When Chinese sneeze, some others catch cold too.

Thankfully it's just a cold now, and not SARS.

BTW the link does work, but that's when I access it from a free and open society which does not censor opinions.
Are you still in China, Mengzhi?

[ Last edited by emucentral at 2007-3-1 06:02 PM ]

2007-3-1 04:01 PM

mengzhi (mengzhi)
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Beggars can't be choosers.

Emu,

The link provided by nosferatu did not work, as he has admitted. He has since provided a second link which is working. Yes I am sitting at the throne at the Forbidden City mapping out how we can pre-empt St. Kilda, Victoria.

It is to your advantage to jettison this 60s warpped misinfo that the Chinese don't have access to the internet. There are more internet users in China than all of the population of Australia. If you stay cocooned in that time warp then you will go through life like Rip van Winkle.

There are only three bright signs on the Australian economic horizon : China China & China. See ?

2007-3-1 04:09 PM

changabula
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QUOTE:

Originally posted by nosferatu at 2007-3-1 04:19
Do you have any friends? A wife/girlfriend? A real job? Any real purpose in life that motivates you to get up in the morning and go out to face life every day?

Why the personal attack?

Totally uncalled for and irrelevant!

2007-3-1 09:42 PM

changabula
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QUOTE:

Originally posted by emucentral at 2007-3-1 16:01

Thankfully it's just a cold now, and not SARS.

BTW the link does work, but that's when I access it from a free and open society which does not censor opinions.
Are you still in China, Mengzhi?

Thats a lot of crap!

There are a lot of sites that are closed down because of American pressure. Do you think that you would last long saying anything anti-American?

If you are a Muslim your email and other Internet activities will be monitored! Look at the way the American media had to lie or keep back information from their own people.

2007-3-1 09:48 PM

nosferatu (nosferatu)
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Reply #5 --- mengzhi's post...

You wrote,

"I have a huge number of friends thank you. I am not a two-headed monster simply because I do not care much for the superior pontifications and lectures from the self appointed moral police ? I am too assertive , you mean ? "

==>  I mean, you take every comment about China, its people, and its culture as an insult (when made by a Westerner).  Typical of a person suffering from paranoia, or low self-esteem.  I really am trying to understand what causes you to act in such an irrational way.

Definition of paranoia: A psychotic disorder characterized by delusions of persecution with or without grandeur, often strenuously defended with apparent logic and reason.  Extreme, irrational distrust of others.

You wrote,

"China has been pilloried, laughed at , ridiculed and giggled at for decades. There are no laws , no standards, but plenty of corruption and inferior goods made by children and prisoners. We have had to endure such taunts, tease and terrible predictions as we tried so hard to pull overselves up by the boot straps. Now we have made it, there is surprise and envy ."

==>  No arguments from me with these comments.  But that is in the past.  Get over it.  If all you are seeking is revenge or retribution, my advice is that you should try to accept that which you cannot change and concentrate on productive actions.  Possibly by extending a hand in cooperation to Westerners as the Chinese nation continues to improve domestic conditions for those not yet benefiting from the economic advances made these last few decades.
By the way, any envy China is/will see is common to all empires/dynasties/nations which attain the status of economic/military superpower.  Get used to it.  That envy will continue until the day China falls from the heights it appears to have reached.  And it will fall some day.  Nothing good lasts forever.  The European powers and the United States have had their days.  Time for a new player.

Your wrote,

"There is also anger that we dared to be so successful without your " help ". I would hate to see where we would be now if you were " helping " us. More like helping yourselves to the loot.  "

===>  Not sure what you mean or are referring to hear.  Achieving economic success requires a surplus of exports with customer nations.  These exports have to be required/desired by customer nations, or cheaper than other sources.  Are you bitter because China needs other nations for successful trade?  Illogical bitterness.

You wrote,

"Stop being personal if you can nos. You seem more intelligent and educated than that . "

==>  Again, I don't dislike you mengzhi.  I just don't understand where your hate of the West, particularly the United States comes from.

You wrote,

"As to my " real job " . I am currently unemployed and deemed unemployable. Do you have an opening for my talents ?"

==>  Unless you are able to legally immigrate to the United States, I don't think that I can help you.  I would suggest focusing on the skills you have and try marketing yourself to companies which need those skills.  If your situation limits you in particular jobs, try starting your own business.  Any good at creating art that others would buy?  Teaching English to others who wish to learn?

2007-3-1 09:52 PM

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emucentral (JB)
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QUOTE:

Originally posted by changabula at 2007-3-1 23:42
Why the personal attack?
Totally uncalled for and irrelevant!

Says Changabullsh!t fresh from another round of racist slander against non-Chinese.

2007-3-2 05:57 AM

#11

mengzhi (mengzhi)
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Physician heal thy self.

Dear nosferatu,

You have misdiagnosed my conditon. It is not paranoia. Indeed it is not I who is the patient. I am just reacting to the oppressors like yourself who have been ( your forebears ) and continue to try subjugating the Chinese to physical and mental abuses by taunts, accusations without foundations and threats. This is the issue here: accusations with no facts. eg Tibet and its invasion in the 60s. The last invasion of Tibet was in 1903 by the British adventurer and murderer Younghusband .

Your supremacist , I-know-best attitude is the illness. It is called delusional grandeur. It used to be a form of tertiary venereal disease of syphilis. GPI : General Paralysis of the Insane. It is getting rarer but apparently still in existence.

So the treatment and rehabilitation is for you lot. You be more circumspect with your bull in the china shop out and out accusations and threats and we may get on better. As a matter of fact , I know for example that Chang is the iconic warm and fuzzy friend if you don't rub him up the wrong way. Give him a go.

2007-3-2 07:59 AM

#12

renegadedog9
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Nothing about China's success is making me wonder whether communism works after all. China is no longer communist in any meaningful sense. The country is undoubtedly making huge strides forward, and I'm impressed with its development, but that is precisely because it has abandoned large communistic elements and is using capitalism to improve itself. So it proves nothing about communism working or not working.

2007-3-2 09:18 AM

#13

zglobal
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nosferatu. Don't make the mistake of trying to have a serious discussions with Mengzhi and Changa... Waste of time. No matter what you say they answer with racist anti western rubbish rather than discussing issues. Your original post was not attacking anyone but you can leave it to these two to raise the bar and create a slanging match.

The fact is that the current political climate does suit China. In fact it is perhaps the cleverest modernization of a country and culture in history. What many in the west forget is the sheer volume of people in China. The government is carefully matching the economy and social changes. However, I don’t think anyone could argue that China in communist because it clearly no longer is.

I believe there will be a serious correction in the economy in coming years but it won’t outweigh the huge gains that will continue before and after that correction.

2007-3-2 09:24 AM

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renegadedog9
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China is undoubtedly going to be the biggest power of this century. No doubts there. Whether that will be at the benefit of a priveliged elite, or if eventually the vast Chinese people, who are proven to be immensely talented when allowed to be so in the west, will unveil the full extent of their talents, remains to be seen.

2007-3-2 09:53 AM

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zglobal
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Like any country, the wealthy elite will take their cut and the poor will get a smaller cut. That's life, because China is not a true communist country at all.

However, you can see the central Government is, and has, looked after the poor in the past. Never in the history of the world has one government looked after so many people. It may not be perfect but no-one is starving that I have ever seen.

It's tough all right, but the Chinese people are tough and resilient.

We can only imagine what they will achieve as a nation in the next 100 years. No wonder America is worried.

2007-3-2 09:59 AM

#16

mengzhi (mengzhi)
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Whinging lot.

" No matter the colour of the cat as long as it catches mice " declared Chairman Deng XiaoPing famously. How wise and how correct is that . Now we hear these mealymouthing from the plebian and the peasants that " it is not the real communism " or " it is because of the number of people in China " ..... duh ? The population of China used to be the bain of the nation trying to clothe and feed them.

Why don't you lot of whingers just accept that the Chinese have beaten the odds, pulled themselves up by their boot straps and are now soaring high. You should learn and emulate, not demonise and castigate. Take those ingrained chips on the shoulder off and be humble long enough to learn from the Chinese. For example, how many of you can debate me like we are doing now , in Chinese ? Raise your hand those who can .

2007-3-2 10:41 AM

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chinadaily (chinadaily)
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it will prove to be very difficult to do this ...

"Take those ingrained chips on the shoulder off and be humble long enough to learn from the Chinese. "

2007-3-2 10:53 AM

#18

zglobal
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Mengzhi Rants

You’re ranting again Mengzhi. What your talking about is your own blind stupidity. I didn't hear anyone here speak badly of China

China is not a communist country in the true sense of the word and everyone knows that.

I for one think they have found the perfect balance of between communism and capitalism. They have the best of both world's and that's why they are already a world power and I look forward to the day that knock the U.S off its perch.

Thankfully, compared to the Chinese I mix with, your about as Chinese as my left ankle.
You think no-one can discuss China, but you can carry out your racist rants to the west. No matter if some of your opinions have credibility or not, you’re so obviously racist to the west that nobody notices.

You’re the kind of person I came to China to escape from. I little bigoted westerner trying to be Chinese because you may happen to have Chinese facial features. In every other aspect your as western as they come.

2007-3-2 11:17 AM

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zuraffo1981
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I found nothing really offensive about the article. it is quite even-handed.

2007-3-2 11:37 AM

#20

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