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Subject: Is there anything we should learn from today's China?
soudenjapan
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Is there anything we should learn from today's China?
Some of members in this forum, like Wchao37 and Arksi-arksi, have such a great deal of confidence in a promising future of China that they go so far as to say that China will be the most powerful leading nation in the world.
But when I ponder on the phenomenon called "China's rise," I always end up wondering one thing: that is, if China is to be a world-class leader, she needs to be respected by the world community for something she does, something distinctive to China. But is there any distinguished quality, remarkable invention, or any outstanding achievement for which the rest of the world admires China and Chinese people, or which makes us feel that China is indeed a world-class leader? What should the rest of the world respect China for as a leader?
If you look back a couple of centuries and take a look at the rise of countries like Great Britain, France, the U.S., Japan, or any other countries that are regarded as leaders and models in modern times in such fields as business, political philosophy, diplomacy, culture and life-style, or education and research, you immediately notice one obvious difference between China and those major countries: they all brought with them new ideas, inventions, talents, or skills that expanded the horizon of human activities, when they rose to power.
Some of their new ideas truly revolutionalized the way people think, behave, live, work, and made our lives better. If not revolutinalized, they did at least take us to the next level of our social advancement.
Those leading countries had something to offer to the world and to be respected and admired in return, though not everything they do were admired of course, and many in the world do try to learn from them in an attempt to figure out what it was that made them so outstanding.
Here are some of the items and achievements for which they are regarded highly around the world. There must be more but these will suffice, for the time being, to illustrate the point I am making here.
Great Britain:
Industrial revolution, university education and research, gentlemanship, common law and parliamentary system,
France:
Passion for artistic expressions and presentation, fashion and design, artistic cuisine, philanthropism and political philosophy
The U.S.:
Mass production, industrial creativity and entrepreneurship, scientific inventions in almost all fields, frontier and challenge spirit, university education and research, freedom, democracy
Japan:
The first non-White industrial country, durability of high-tech products, lean production and factory management, precision manufacturing, energy efficiency
How about China?
China:
How do you fill in the blank? Is anything new happening in China that has relevance and significance to the rest of the world? What shall we learn from China? What do you think?
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Last edited by soudenjapan at 2005-12-12 05:27 PM
]
2005-12-12 10:50 AM
#1
chinadaily
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China is distinctive
Confucianism, the resource of everything needed for a great power.
Chinese people's strength to overcome extreme hardship;
Chinese people's unitedness to chase away foreign invaders;
Chinese people's caring for the elderly and the young;
Chinese people's far-sightedness for future (that explains world's highest bank saving rate)
Chinese people' s enterprenuership to work for successful business (esp in Southeast China, such as Shanghai, Zhejiang, Fujian and Guangdong)
Chinese people's confidence to regain the status of a great country, because they had built it in Dang Dynasty, Han Dynasty, and early Qing Dynasty
Technology? China is already the world's largest Internet users, the biggest mobile phone maker and user, soon would be the biggest auto country, the world's longest expressways (in 5 years?) and ++, ++,++
wait for China's Space Station, and China men and maybe first group of Chinese tourists on the Moon, Mars, and other stars ...
Maybe I am a little bit too optimistic, but All Chinese would keep working for them
right?
[
Last edited by chinadaily at 2006-7-5 08:56 AM
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2005-12-12 10:38 PM
#2
soudenjapan
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All right.
What makes you belive China is distinctive? Will you be more specific?
2005-12-12 10:46 PM
#3
spiritrace
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Something the Chinese government must do to win the respect of the people.
Coal Mine safety............The sooner the better. It would be to the benefit of all Chinese to bring the standards to above world class safety. Production output would improve dramatically.
2005-12-13 11:52 AM
#4
spiritrace
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Road builing.........
The world rolls on wheels. The roads I have experienced in China are in great need of re-design to meet the increasing demands of production and transport. The many toll booths are an added expense to effecient production and should not be there The fuel tax should take care of road building. (paid for by the users) With faster and more effecient roads, overall effeciency will improve.
2005-12-13 11:56 AM
#5
spiritrace
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Serious implication of alternative fuels.
Generally world wide oil companies control energy source output.... Here are some old technologies that could be put into place and with the government forbidding control by oil companies.....
Alcohol fuel: Biomass and coal gasification produces this clean burning fuel. Actual cost of production is very low and the by product is food for animals. This would be an extra source of good nutrition for feed stock. Also the government should ban any animal products in feed stock for chickens and other grain eating animals.
Methane from Biomass: City dumps produce huge amounts of methane. The waste used to make alcohol can also produce methane gas (a natural gas)
Wind Energy is in place in China and growing.
Ocean Energy: Constant motion IS constant energy.
Geothermal: The heat from a shallow well (4-5 thousand feet) releases a lot of heat energy, if there is no natural gas, oil or water, use it to heat nearby towns or at least government buildings to save taxpayers in the future.
Solar Energy works and has been in place but more could be used for heat and electricity. I use this myself on a family basis.
Preventing Oil companies from controlling these sources of energy would allow them to develop at a much faster rate and with competition would develop even faster.
2005-12-13 12:07 PM
#6
spiritrace
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Standards for poultry need to be established.
I have seen millions and millions of poultry (chickens) slaughtered because of virus con^^ination. Starting with the biggest producers, standards for indoor production of chickens with strict standards for the feed would pay off in just a few years with again higher production and better quality. I realize the small farmers are helpless at this point and agricultural agencies can help design a safer way of production for the small farmers to insure profit and healthy products.
Again safe food for chickens is equally as important.
2005-12-13 12:12 PM
#7
spiritrace
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Education system.......
Yes the Chinese educational system is superior to most countries. But there is one small adjustment that would help......
In China there are two kinds of people who are always correct and never incorrect........The boss and teachers. This creates a sort of culture that slows the creative mind.........
The process of learning also involves the challenge of conventional knowledge. This is not done in Chinese education because of culture and authority. In slow incremental ways the student should be allowed to challenge the knowledge they are being taught.
At one time the earth was believed to be the center of the universe........
At one time, Emporers and leaders were considered Gods.........
You get the picture.
Let the brilliant young students discover new truths and the alternative ways of getting things done. The challenges will be small in the lower grades and so will the results but in the University the challenges will be great with equal results.
Let the dreamers dream great things then go on to create them.
2005-12-13 12:21 PM
#8
caringhk
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China did not go to war with any country!!!
China loves Peace and this spells SUCCESS!!!
China is doing well in Medicine with space technology!!!
China is inviting willing foreign partnership for win-win culture!!!
China has the largest population which no country will beat!!!
China's GDP will double(100%) next few years while other lags behind!!!
Mind you China buys your product and it is big business for you!!!
Kind regards
to the Bank!!!!!
2005-12-13 03:19 PM
#9
signotimes
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bush is an idiot...
...and dongzhou was a tragedy. you needn't respond to this message; just think of a better way for china. the united states at present has a terrible, lousy president, and i dislike just about everything that bush does, and yet i wouldn't trade him for a minute for a land in which i could not peaceably criticize my leaders without fear of retribution.
if you fear your government, there is something wrong with your government.
respectfully,
j. scott, los angeles
2005-12-14 09:42 AM
#10
canchin
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Comments on the jap's drivel.
Some additions to your "items and achievements" over the last couple of centuries.
Great Britain: invasion of foreign countries, theft from and theft of indigenous people in those foreign countries, slavery, murder, rape, destruction, war, corruption, racism, genocide.
France: invasion of foreign countries, theft from and theft of indigenous people in those foreign countries, slavery, murder, rape, destruction, war, corruption, racism, genocide.
The US: invasion of foreign countries, theft from and theft of indigenous people in those foreign countries, slavery, murder, rape, destruction, war, corruption, racism, genocide.
japan: invasion of foreign countries, theft from and theft of indigenous people in those foreign countries, slavery, murder, rape, destruction, war, corruption, racism, genocide.
China: victimized by Great Britain; victimized by France; victimized by the US; victimized by japan...her people enslaved, murdered, raped, destroyed, corrupted by the UK, France, the US and japan.
Chinese people: murdered, tortured, raped, enslaved by Great Britain; murdered, tortured, raped, enslaved by France; murdered, tortured, raped, enslaved by the US; murdered, tortured, raped, enslaved by japan.
But we should bring it into today...
UK today: invasion of foreign countries, theft from and theft of indigenous people in those foreign countries, slavery, murder, rape, destruction, war, corruption, racism, genocide.
France today: invasion of foreign countries, theft from and theft of indigenous people in those foreign countries, slavery, murder, rape, destruction, war, corruption, racism, genocide.
The US today: invasion of foreign countries, theft from and theft of indigenous people in those foreign countries, slavery, murder, rape, destruction, war, corruption, racism, genocide.
japan today: insignificant puppet participating in the efforts of the US to invade foreign countries, as they steal from indigenous people in those foreign countries, enslaving, murdering, raping, destroying, engaging in a corrupt war built on lies, corruption, racism, genocide - all with japan's puppydog-like fawning.
China today: progress, change, dealing with past grievances...and getting on the nerves of all those braindead idiots in the UK, France, the UK and japan that just wish China would get with "their" program. Accepting that there are problems and dealing with those problems as best and as fast as possible.
China today:
NOT standing up in front of the world community and mincing about how perfect China is and how every other country should emulate her;
NOT invading poor countries and murdering, torturing, raping and stealing from the poor people in those countries;
NOT trying to shove the ideological, social, cultural or political system of China down the throats of those that don't want it - or murdering those that refuse to accept enslavement by a foreign power.
But rather:
DOING something to try and improve the lives of her people.
DOING something to try and rid China of the problems that manifested themselves over millenia and doing so at a pace that works.
So, you go right ahead while wallowing in your ignorance and servitude to the US and believe that your "fave countries" are better, while the rest of us that are not so ignorant and not so willing to kiss America's dirty buttocks will examine what "Is" and choose to believe reality instead.
The UK: now just becoming a pariah in Europe. Laughed at as simply a pimple on Bush's ass.
France: too backward to consider.
The US: currently the greatest spreader of death, destruction and evil on the face of the planet.
japan: a useless wart on the ass-end of Asia.
China: the only country in Asia that is truly succeeding.
2005-12-14 04:23 PM
#11
soudenjapan
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Just a quick comment
canchin,
I skimmed through your message, but couldn't find anything China offers to the rest of the world as a leader. You say China doesn't do this and that, which is fine. But how does that make China make a world-class leader? Those negative descriptions of other major countries don't help either.
What can China do for the world which no one else can do better than China?
Chinadaily moderator says that it is Confucianism. It certainly is a set of unique philosophy and wisdom originated in China. But I'm afraid that people in the world are not going to be fascinated about it.
He mentioned about the frontier in the space as well. But If one wants to study the space technology, his or her likely destination will be the U.S., not China. What Chinese astronauts succeeded a couple of month ago was a human experience achieved by Soviet Union and the U.S. 40 years ago. Nothing was new about it.
Maybe it is safe to conclude that the Chinese doesn't have anything to offer to the rest of the world at this state of the social progress in China. Do you agree with me?
[
Last edited by soudenjapan at 2005-12-14 05:43 PM
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2005-12-14 05:38 PM
#12
caringhk
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I think you are irrational
and wanna compare end results now!!!
It is wrong to do that.
Why can't you say nobody is more successful than China to MANAGED
1.3billion people. Why don't you admit that but still wanna poke.
China has the best ginseng in the world.
China growth will surpass many by %. Just do your arimethic.
Can you ask your question in 20years time???
Kind regards
2005-12-14 05:46 PM
#13
soudenjapan
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Maybe you are missing the point.
caringhk,
We know how economy grows and fails. Many countries in the world have experienced the ups and downs of economy. Economic growth is not a new phenomenon, nor is high rate of growth unique to China either.
Seeing the demise of Soviet Union, China was simply forced to give up her own way of dealing with economy in the 80s, giving in to our way, and began adjusting to the lifestyle similar to those in the West or Japan. So there is nothing much to learn from it. China will make further adjustment to our way of doing things in both economics and politics, not the other way around. China will handle the exchange rate of the Yuan as demanded. Human rights condition in China will get better as demanded.
The question is what we are supposed to learn from China. Does China deserve an extra respect as a world-class leader?
China may indeed have the best ginseng in the world, but there is nothing to learn in it. And I'm not so sure about and many people probably don't agree with your assertion that China has been successfully managing 1.3 billion people.
2005-12-14 10:17 PM
#14
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Creationism, Materialism, China, and the World
In another forum a writer was ragging on America and the peoples of America. This was their subject line at the top of their comments. It pretty much summed up their point of view.
"Amerikan freaks adopt Creationism to Manipulate their People."
That writer knows who they were.
The person who wrote on this was, in short, saying people of China - the proud bearers of a communism, a Godless nation - are better than others because they are not materialistic and that the majority of Americans views of Science, Spiritual Matters, and Religion were based on some perception that humankind was created just five or six thousand years ago. Below is a response that is a worthy read. Also this response had gone unchallenged in the previous forum since it had been posted, even the original writer of "Amerikan freaks ..." did not challenge this point of view.
You might enjoy this. It pretty much levels the playing field to say, if you think you are all that -- you'd better take a reality check. Because, this point of view you can take to the bank. And through for you inner self and soul you gain equity. Keep the faith. Humankind will evolve and reach new heights as the next generation of those coming into this world preserve such truths as this. It is really about human culture - and the value of truth, the righteousness of a person's word - and - about the simple fact that as a person's word is no good: they themselves have little worth at all. Except to learn from them this one lesson ... what not to be like. In fact, it is you keeping you word that makes you what you are. It defines good and bad -- like night and day. As I walk through life I want to be able to trust the people around me. And the truth or goodness of what is the value of their word is everything. All people are not fooled by those who would like to fool everyone. Also this writings below touches on the issue of materialism. The range is wide as the subject is pointed.
Creationism, intelligent design, materialism, lies, china, american, and the world ...
Bound and Chained is not where it is at. Freedom of thoughts are. Especially when they are founded on truth ... and ... fact
There are a number of things to say about this subject. Creationism is not adopted or believed by any truly intellectual American. It has been and being spun by dogmatic views that are old and not supported by general public. The words these people have attached to it to hide their religious pushyness and poorly founded views are "Intelligent Design." Few know that the people using the term "Intelligent design" for political reasons are people who would like to push a religious view that human life started merely 6000 years ago. "Intelligent Design" as stand alone words on their own would have great merit -- to mean that The Universe has an intelligent design to it and an intelligent reason for why things happen the way they do. Unfortunately the pure meaning to the words "intelligent design" is stuck in the muck of a few bad people. All americans and their viewpoint can not be judged by the small band of creationism believers of deceits. Most americans have a great value for the dinosaur and the fact that all life evolves to greater heights over distances of time, to which we all play a part. There is a great little writing at
www.totallycool.net
on Darwin, Intelligent Design, and the workings of all the Universe known as "The Highest Order." You might find it interesting. And also you will see it supports the fact that ALL americans do not buy into -- beliefs -- that have no foundation of truth. Some of the great Americans, like great people anywhere in the world, do believe in truth and that truth and honesty have more meaning than any false or fake things can. To put down an american or any person because of an ill founded prejudice makes the the person doing that equally as stupid as the person who thinks creationism is what is real. The Universe does have its own Intelligent Design and it has little to do with those who misuse those words or people who would bring children up on a creationism belief used to manipulate the minds of people that may be vital to the future. As far as materialism, give us a break. Americans are not any more materialistic than any other person in other countries. As the example many china born people go to America even by securing visas through fraud to have the material things they can in America. An example is the story of where a Chinese shanghai hostess used and betrayed the honorable goodness thought to be in the heart of asian people to suck all the material gain she could get by entering America and using a marriage to get what she wanted while breaking every promise made and oath taken. And then went on to prove -as a real life example- that the word of a china born person is less than worthless. Excuses are many but the truths have been told by this person's own hand and evidences of what this china born person did, so many: "Fake Things" -
www.mingzhiyang.cn
-- The point is for some people -- truth and love do matter, and have great value. For others all they can get for their self self self is ALL that matters. As they care only about their self. What we have learned is there are some good people in all lands. And we would hope that is true for china and the heritage of china too. Although that seem to have faded away as being something of the past. Even as the example yang mingzhi (mingzhi yang) set forth as the things done -- disgraced and dishonored all chinese people. The example of the china born liar. And a mind seeking material and gain just for the self. When the future tells more by the actions and not cheap words we all learn what is real. Something "To Realize." If you really want to develop your mind and evolve, setting prejudice aside, see the Darwin writings, story link at totallycool.net -- IF you dare and can face the evil china has shown by example then read what we read on the first page of mingzhiyang.cn -- there you will see a chinese girl say written of her own hand -- she could not love a former 7 year chinese boyfriend because she "makes more money" and on the fraud page you can hear her SAY from her own mouth, audio available: "i don't care what's lie or truth." Should we bunch all americans together and say bad -- and then in turn bunch all chinese together and say "liars" and "materialist", the word of dishonesty -- maybe we should do neither and realize bad is bad and good is good -- wherever you are. It is important because China since 1981 has been mostly by law "One child family households", which mean hundreds of millions of 25 year old adults that are raised on the me me me mentality. And with it all the lies that must and do come from that material mentality. Is that evolution or evolution showing great honor lost ? Maybe with a wide range of thinking, material "things" one day will not be nearly as important as human value - integrity - honor - and what is ... absolute truth, to include - keeping your word. Maybe if we see this in ourselves we can change the world and evolve to make it a better place for everyone, even those waiting to come into this world. How do dinosaurs say good night ???? How did they say "good night" ? The answer is ..... They go extinct !!! They went extinct. Is that what should happen to humankind in the future and all the workings of human life be lost ? How do we evolve --
Dinosaurs were around for 250 million years -- humans based on natural history somewhere around 2.3 million years. Because so many are material mongers -- does everyone lose in the long run and is that the outcome of the Big Picture ? Think about it. What can you do to make the world a better place ??? Now you really understand -- Darwin and the origin of life. Humans did not come about 6000 years ago and american don't buy into that idea. The Ceationism view will and can never stand up to the powers or intellect of "The Highest Order" of our known Universe. Learn something new. The world is not as stupid as some might think it is. Neither are all American people. But there is a real life example documented that tells and shows people of china lie and want material things more than honor or holding true to their word. And it is "a person's word" that is what makes that person real, as a real example of the truth. Even if what they do disgraces all Asian people and they care not to make anything right when such great wrongs are imposed. This all speaks volumes. All about what is true. We see how the dinosaurs said "good night." Will all mankind be served the same fate because liars and material seekers -- come from china as well as everywhere else --
Not wise to spit on america or its people when the woman who is called into this world as yang mingzhi proved and made ten's of thousands of others around the world believe and know many born in china lie and have little respect for honor. That is the evolution that person, of that land, as the true example -- offered the world while entering america with the objective of being materialistic. It is the china born person who said on tape "i don't care what is truth or lie." Equally as low as the person who tries to force creationism on any intellectual mind. Bad is bad inside no matter who you are or where you are, or where you come from. Remember there is good and intelligence in the heart of many people - and even in people in america.
Now we have evolved.
Says a lot ... regarding everyone
2005-12-15 01:32 AM
#15
canchin
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Is it just me
...or are neither the newbie poster nor the writer of the rambling drivel that is the included "article" playing with a full deck?
2005-12-15 03:07 AM
#16
observer3
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First of all, for the person who posted above canchin, thank you for making me dig-up and read one of Flot＊s rants on America, as this is the first time that I ever had to read any of Flot＊s posts sentence by sentence 每 a process that I don＊t appreciate. Nevertheless, Flot never claimed that China＊s better because it＊s not materialistic, neither did he imply that the majority of Americans are Creationists; he was basically blasting the recent social/political movement pushing for Creationism here in the U.S. He made many other claims, in that particular post and innumerable others, regarding how evil the Americans and the British are (yeah, this is one guy who thoroughly enjoy beating a dead horse); however, if you want to critique that particular post on creationism, please refrain from blasting him on what he DIDN＊T write. Secondly, please feel free to utilize the spelling/grammar check function on your computer; it won＊t catch everything, but it will keep you away from the obvious errors. Your post was very difficult to read.
As far as the original topic is concerned, yes, there is something that we can learn from China. I don＊t claim to know every Chinese, but the Chinese nationals here in the U.S. brought with them a sense of dynamic optimism: ※things are good today, but it will be better tomorrow, and it＊ll be better still the day after tomorrow.§ Americans used to be like that. The Chinese of today remind me of the mythical American explorers of the past that populate only the history books nowadays. This seems to be a fairly unique trait for the Chinese today. With the exception of Indians, I＊ve yet to notice this general sense of proactive vibrancy from people of any other nationalities 每 everyone else seems to be only interested in maintaining the status quo.
2005-12-15 06:45 AM
#17
chairman
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Thanks Canchin....and thanks Observer3....
Observer3 .... well said....
2005-12-15 06:54 AM
#18
caringhk
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How do you define "our way".
Frank Sinatra version!!!!
Have you been to China???
Look at those foreigners who have been and they say how peaceful it is!!!
I mean generally and not spots of problems.
One thing others can learn from China. A European/Americanlady, now ~70-80 years old who lived ~20-30 years each in China,USA,Russia,UK)has this to say.
People are so calm working and as if making thing so smoothly without considering materialism.
Is with the TOP 5 good enough for you???
Or you die die want no.1!!!
Do you think the voters way is the best or elected representative from each county by way of meeting with the residents is an alternative way.
Perhaps your way is not our way!!! Can you accept it?
Lastly, China make cheaper and better things for the world!!!
Kind regards
2005-12-15 09:30 AM
#19
luf2004
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Is there anything we should learn from today's China?
Not sure why original poster started such a topic.
First of all, who said China wants to be a world leader? Chinese and China never want to be or care to be. If you think China is a world leader, fine; if you think China is not, fine too.
But I would agree China has contributed very little to the world in terms of science, technology, and art in past 200 years. This is base on the comparison between China and western countries.
If the comparison is from 200 years ago to few thousand years ago, the situation will be completely different.
So it is true that to be Chinese it is embarrassing to read history books that the ancient Chinese contributed to the world a one of the most glory civilizations in terms of science, technologies, philosophy, and arts. But China is now quite behind in all of those compare to the US, UK, and France.
I would suggest you not to list Japan with the US, UK, and France. What Japan has contributed to the world from few thousand years ago until present? How could you list Japan with the above countries such as China, US, UK, and France? It is quite funny to me.
Well, I would list the countries who are respected by their contribution in the world in terms of science and technology also arts in past 200 years
The UK 每 modern democratic regime and industrial revolution
France 每 modern philosophy, science, and arts
Italy 每 ancient and modern arts
Germany 每 modern science and technologies
The US 每 modern science, technologies
And also many other countries, but I have hard time to list Japan with any of the above countries 每 what Japan has contributed in modern science? I have never read a Japanese name in my college books; what Japan has contributed in art? The white looking comics? Is there anything called Japanese philosophy or arts in the world?
I would make another list of the countries (nations) who contributed to the world greatly in ancient time
Egypt 每 the oldest civilization, which heavily influenced Babylon, India, Muslin, Greece and Rome civilizations
Babylon
India - one of the great civilization from 5000 years ago until ??
China 每 a civilization contributed to the world with superior science, technologies, philosophy, and arts to entire world for thousand years.
Greece and Rome 每 the modern western civilization came from Greece, Rome, and Muslin civilizations.
Muslin - An important civilization in human history, which was superior than western Europ civilization until 400 years ago. Actually, it was Muslin taught western Europ the great Greece and Rome civilizations.
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Last edited by luf2004 at 2005-12-15 12:15 PM
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2005-12-15 12:09 PM
#20
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