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Subject: Taiwan's (Irrational) Fear of China
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deananash
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Taiwan's (Irrational) Fear of China
To all of the Westerners out there who are sure that they "know" the truth about China and Taiwan, perhaps you should read the Associated Press article at:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051 ... aiwan_china_tourism
Here are three brief quotes:
"Earlier this year, China dusted off a proposal to expand the number of its tourists visiting Taiwan to 360,000 a year — more than 10 times the current level."
"At the time Taiwan spurned the offer, saying it needed further study. But for any decision to take effect, Taiwan's government will have to agree to opening its doors to the visitors."
"Taiwan and China split amid civil war in 1949. While there were more than one million Taiwanese visits to the mainland in 2004, visits by Chinese to Taiwan have been severely limited, ostensibly because of Taiwanese concerns over potential spies or saboteurs."
Taiwan's leader (Chen Shui-bian (陳水扁) isn't afraid of China's military, he's actually afraid of China's people. China, of course, has no such fear of its citizens from Taiwan Province. More than a million Chinese come from Taiwan to the mainland each year.
Is it possible, just maybe, that Chen knows that when the door opens both ways, it will be the end of his little kingdom? Chinese people, on both sides of the straights, want peace, harmony, and further integration. This is, after all, the Chinese way.
To summarize, China wants MORE OPENNESS with Taiwan, MORE EXCHANGES of its citizens, resulting in MORE RELATIONSHIPS between average citizens, and Taiwan's leaders are AGAINST this.
China today (and I do mean the CCP) is far more "representative" of her people than Chen is of his.
I have to state clearly, the CCP isn't perfect. NOBODY is. But the CCP is growing, reaching out, changing. That is the very definition of life (including the imperfections.) Chen's party in Taiwan is opposite.
Dean A. Nash
deananash@yahoo.com
China
[
Last edited by deananash at 2006-7-4 11:57 PM
]
2005-11-3 12:31 AM
#1
deananash
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Power Corrupts....
....Chen's ego has gotten in the way of his integrity. As with so many others, the corrupting power of POWER will be his downfall. I for one, always doubted his sincerity towards the welfare of "his" people. I always thought that, for him, Taiwanese independence was all about his being "the father of a new nation" rather than the best thing for island's residents.
2006-6-18 02:53 PM
#2
mencius
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Wouldn't you be scared.......
.....of 700-800 missiles pointed at you? That's what China has parked on its side of the Straits ready to attack Taiwan.
2006-6-18 08:24 PM
#3
deananash
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M.A.D.
Certainly the million yearly visits by Taiwanese to the mainland suggests that they aren't as worried about those missles as some would have us believe. After all, if they were, why would they engage in business (and pleasure) with China?
Speaking of threats, as an American, I (along with everyone else) lived with the threat of nuclear annihilation for a long time. The acronym MAD was a perfect description of the situation. It stood for Mutually Assured Destruction. Bascially, it said that America's and the Soviet Union's best defense against nuclear attack was the fact that the other side would have time to retaliate (and would surely do so), thus engulfing both countries (and basically the entire world) in nuclear war. In the end, any victory would have been hollow. In my view, China using missles against Taiwan would also be a no-win situation.
It's another way of saying that in this case, war is untenable. I think that everyone knows this. China - like most other countries - would certainly take some action in order to protect her territorial integrity, but I doubt that it would involve missles. I think that a 'decapitization' would be more likely. No need to use a shotgun when a fly-swatter would work better. In the end, Chen is solving the problem that he has created, through his mismanagement, corruption and myopic views.
2006-6-18 11:20 PM
#4
greendragon
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The Fujien Faction of Chinese politics is pretty powerful!
In Taiwan, Cities in Penang and Johor....medan in Sumatra, Jakarta, Manila are the centers of the Fujien Faction....a very powderful and close knit group!!!!
The Taiwanese are not frighten of China, they fear that their TERRITORY is being threatened!!!!! Heck! If there is guarantee from China that their BUSINESS ADVANTAGE is not harmed.....they'll rejoin in a minute!
I really don't know why you guys have so much trouble with the FUJIEN FACTION.
those guys are so patriotic....they are practically the financier of OVERSEA CHINESE EDUCATION in ASEAN. they single handedly change the industrial landscape in China much like the CANTONESE single handedly change the landscape in the cities in China, Europe, USA and British Club nations!!!!
So what's the big deal!
It's just BUSINESS AS USUAL!
(ha ha ha and the song on my radio just blare.....WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS!)
Yes yes, Big brother Fujienese!!!!!!
The producer!!!!!
Green Dragon
2006-6-19 01:27 PM
#5
deananash
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Greendragon, you are...
really a piece of work. I would love to have a coffee with you sometime and see if I can find out what makes you tick. Very interesting, indeed!
2006-6-20 11:43 AM
#6
greendragon
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Reply #6 deananash's post
It's gotta to do with "semi retirement" and looking for some "hillarious hobby" to do!
ha ha ha
Hey, Dean, i might want to visit America one of this days....we can do the coffee later!
ha ha ha
Taiwan LOVES the benefits it gets from the economic relationship it gets with Japan and USA. It has also strong links to the ASEAN region, i know it personally that Fujien people in particular (and other Chinese) study manufacturing business in Taiwan. Most of the manufacturing business, especially the small scale units have Taiwan made machinery.
That's the freedom and benefit, the Taiwan Fujien Faction is protecting!
If you look at the Chinese as 1 SINGLE GROUP, cohesive due to common culture but yet competiting with each other with various factions to ensure VITALITY....and leveraging on international politics to get the best deal!
Green Dragon
2006-6-20 12:37 PM
#7
mencius
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QUOTE:
Originally posted by
deananash
at 18-6-2006 16:20
Certainly the million yearly visits by Taiwanese to the mainland suggests that they aren't as worried about those missles as some would have us believe.
Well that's a completely irrelevant response. Why would going to China, which doesn't have missiles pointed at it, be riskier than staying inside a country that has missiles pointed at it? In fact surely having missiles pointed at Taiwan would encourage people to get out!
QUOTE:
In the end, Chen is solving the problem that he has created, through his mismanagement, corruption and myopic views.
I doubt very much that unification is going to occur because of Chen, nor was the current situation his "fault". It was the fault of the KMT and CCP for their 50 year-long bickering. The DDP has been in power for a mere 6 years - the fallout between Taipei and Beijing started a lot earlier!
2006-6-21 12:09 AM
#8
deananash
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We obviously have quite different views...
...although we're looking at the same thing. My point about the one million annual Taiwanese visits (to the mainland) has to do with the original intent of this thread, and the fact that if China were your enemy, why would you possibly visit so much? Don't even mention that "well, that's just business" crap, as only a fool would do business with his enemy under such conditions.
As for actual fear of the missles, I thought that I illustrated my point with the example of the Cold War and the MAD policies, when I said that we all lived in fear of nuclear war. But I don't think that any of us actually had a fear of a missle crashing down upon us. And that was the point. The MAD policies - the fact that there would be no winners, only losers - alleviated our fears. China will not attack Taiwan. They would probably move against Chen if he tried to force separation, and they'd certainly fight to keep Taiwan. But randomly lob missles? No way.
As for my comments regarding Chen, the fact is that the Chinese government has agreed to maintain the status quo - for the time being - and it is Chen who has so ardently pushed for independence. Ergo, his demise helps to solve the problem that he himself created. No, not the problem of China/Taiwan, but rather the problem of the moment, his desire to separate Taiwan from China.
In this case, as in so many others, the Chinese leaders are in agreement with the "will of the people" as most Taiwanese want to maintain the status quo for the time being.
2006-6-21 12:49 PM
#9
deananash
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Greendragon,
I'm here in China (ShenZhen). It'd be my pleasure to treat you to a Starbucks if/when you pass this way.
2006-6-21 12:51 PM
#10
tianyuanedu
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QUOTE:
Originally posted by
mencius
at 2006-6-18 20:24
.....of 700-800 missiles pointed at you? That's what China has parked on its side of the Straits ready to attack Taiwan.
Ah, those are not missiles. After all, China would never kill its own people. Those are kisses to be launched to show Taiwan teh mainland's love. 100-800 smackers. Now how can you say China doesn't love Taiwan with that many smackers. Heck, they'd all hit within minutes of one another. Now don't tell me you've ever received that many kisses in that short a time.
2006-6-25 01:22 AM
#11
tianyuanedu
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On a serious note though, I do believe that more open borders between the two sides could only benefit both.
2006-6-25 01:28 AM
#12
archilangelo
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The Chinese mainland is always very explicit to the policy of Taiwans.The Chinese mainland passes its soft real strenght Be influencing Taiwan.Along with the high-speed development of the Chinese economy, Taiwan worries an own position more and more.
--------------------------------------------------------
ZhongHuaRising
2006-6-28 08:20 PM
#13
victor425
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taiwan will come bank
2006-7-1 04:08 PM
#14
mencius
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QUOTE:
Originally posted by
victor425
at 1-7-2006 09:08
taiwan will come bank
Best way to ensure it does is to be nice to it - e.g. remove those missiles. Pandas don't quite cut the ice in comparison.
2006-7-2 06:31 AM
#15
tongluren
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How Do You "Point" a Missile?
Modern missiles are programmable, and I can assure you that the missiles are "pointed" mostly at the skies.
They are no more "pointed" at Taiwan than they are at the UK.
Our Brit friend's silly bromide is basically arguing that Taiwan cannot feel comfortable unless China disarms totally. You see that likely? Is the UK surrounded by unfriendly nations? Why does the UK maintain more than 1,000 tactical nuclear weapons, and strategic ICBMs in its nuclear sub?
2006-7-4 09:00 AM
#16
greendragon
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Reply #16 tongluren's post
Britain has so many nuclear weapons?
wow!
Green Dragon
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2006-7-4 01:33 PM
#17
deananash
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Building up "people to people" cross-strait relations....
...should be in everyone's best interest. For China to have a million visits per year by the Taiwanese, and yet Taiwan only permits tens of thousands of mainlanders, is scandalous. What is Chen afraid of? He's obviously afraid for the 'average' Taiwanese to get to meet (and know) the average mainlander. Now ask yourself, why? (This has nothing to do with missles.) Thank God Taiwan and China will be rid of him soon.
2006-7-5 12:17 AM
#18
emucentral
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QUOTE:
Originally posted by
deananash
at 2006-7-5 02:17
For China to have a million visits per year by the Taiwanese, and yet Taiwan only permits tens of thousands of mainlanders, is scandalous. What is Chen afraid of? ...
It would be very easy for mainlanders to flood Taiwan.
It would be impossible for Taiwan to flood the mainland.
JB
2006-7-5 02:51 PM
#19
deananash
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Yes, but...
...that would only be possible if China were looking to allow unrestricted visitations, which they aren't. They merely proposed an increase - albeit a big increase - that would still leave Taiwan with a 3:1 ratio. There is no good reason for Chen to block this, other than for his own political gains.
2006-7-5 07:32 PM
#20
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