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antimatter
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**China under Commercial Colonialism Threat**

The term is commercial Colonialism.

Using superior tech lead to dominate a foreign country market.

That's what the west is employing. Put China under Wassaner treaty restrcition, doesn't allow CHina to obtain the latest leading edge tech. even though it has nothing to do with military.

Under this unequal and unfair conditions. some still has to guts to bitch China doens't fully open its market for commercial colonialism?

At the same time they also bitch China has too much trade surplus from selling low ended goods oversea.

2009-10-26 06:18 AM

antimatter
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if western products dominated the market. then the potential danger is China will never achieve advanced western countries level of modernization.

It will stuck in middle of the level of pack in terms of GDP per capita.

Currently, CHina 's GDP capita per is $3500, under the threat of commercial colonization, China will be like Malaysia or Mexico level in terms of GDP per capita. $7000 and never able to advance further.

2009-10-27 01:05 AM

tradervic (Uncle Laowai)
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<arched eyebrow> What?

Not enough kids "coming back home" from North America and Europe after they attend the Universities there - like what is occurring with other countries (Malaysia & India) included?

Sorry antimatter - but when it comes down to it - the ability to be creative and not to be punished for it is still a realm that most countries have failed to achieve (P.R. China included).

2009-10-27 01:13 AM

antimatter
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^well you watch, under the current threat from foreign commercial colonization,

China will never break the $7000 per capita GDP.

That's my prediction.

2009-10-27 01:27 AM

tradervic (Uncle Laowai)
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Hate to say it, but...

... given the rather large tract of farmers and migrant workers - regardless of what scheme you are thinking of - if you do not include that tract, that number will continue to stay low, if not lower.

2009-10-27 02:14 AM

antimatter
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QUOTE:

Originally posted by tradervic at 2009-10-27 02:14
... given the rather large tract of farmers and migrant workers - regardless of what scheme you are thinking of - if you do not include that tract, that number will continue to stay low, if not lower.

wrong,

let's say if China owns Intel, microsoft, Boeing, GE large monopoly of tech and market in the world.
it wold break the $7000 per capita mark even if it has large number of farmers.

2009-10-27 04:08 AM

idiot8
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QUOTE:

Originally posted by antimatter at 2009-10-27 04:08

wrong,

let's say if China owns Intel, microsoft, Boeing, GE large monopoly of tech and market in the world.
it wold break the $7000 per capita mark even if it has large number of farmers.

It would need a better educated workforce to have companies like that. It would need better IP protection to create companies like that. It would need a freely tradeable currency to have companies like that.
In fact china has companies that compete with these compainese, they just do it the Chinese way. With numerically superior numbers of Engineers and lower costs.

2009-10-27 06:23 AM

antimatter
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QUOTE:

Originally posted by idiot8 at 2009-10-27 06:23

It would need a better educated workforce to have companies like that. It would need better IP protection to create companies like that. It would need a freely tradeable currency to have comp ...

Once again wrong.

currency has nothing to do with it. IP protection, yeah sure, once China has it , then protect it.

anyway, it's almost impossible to create that because whatever China create it will hard to accept by the west.

The west will not tolerate to use a technology that's monopolized by China.

2009-10-27 09:15 AM

antimatter
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^

Once again wrong.

currency has nothing to do with it. IP protection, yeah sure, once China has it , then protect it.

anyway, it's almost impossible to create that because whatever China create it will hard to accept by the west.

The west will not tolerate to use a technology that's monopolized by China.

2009-10-27 09:18 AM

interesting (Steven Schreiber)
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Antimatter doesn't know anything and never will.

2009-10-27 09:23 AM

#10

antimatter
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If the west will never tolerate a technolgy monopolized and controlled by China, likewise,
China shouldn't tolerate the western technology creating monopoly in China.

Therefore, China must be aware the danger of created by such commercial colonization by the west.

I am seeing the dangerous trend in China now, and I predict China WILL NOT break the $7000 per capita GDP unless the government turn around and do something about it.

[ Last edited by antimatter at 2009-10-27 09:37 AM ]

2009-10-27 09:35 AM

#11

interesting (Steven Schreiber)
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It's a wholly debatable accusation you know. China has been unable to develop any technology of significance in 500 years or more, so whether anyone would tolerate a Chinese monopoly on some technical item is pretty much untested.

2009-10-28 01:57 AM

#12

tradervic (Uncle Laowai)
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Hm... looks like you touched a couple of key points...

QUOTE:

Originally posted by idiot8 at 10/26/2009 05:23 PM
It would need a better educated workforce to have companies like that. It would need better IP protection to create companies like that. It would need a freely tradeable currency to have companies like that.
In fact china has companies that compete with these compainese, they just do it the Chinese way. With numerically superior numbers of Engineers and lower costs.

1)  IP Protection - what is the old Chinese saying about NOT teaching people the craft you work?  It is hard to come up with an idea, when it is pretty much going to be badly copied with your name on it.  Whatever value a beginning brand name generates, it is pretty much snuffed out in that type of toxic environment.

2)  Education - not only the question of Universities, but Trade Schools as well - where is the accreditation that could afford mainland schools a place in the international roundtable of "made" Universities?

3)  Currency - that strikes at that delicate issue that has been discussed at this BBS for the last couple years - has China arrived or not on the international stage?  The more the currency peg continues - the more folks will believe it has not - regardless of the nice shows in Beijing and Shanghai.

2009-10-28 02:23 AM

#13

antimatter
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here's my take
1)IP Protection ----protecting western monopoly of tech and products in China

2)Education----Chinese spend big money by sending their kids to western universities.

3)Currency----Create more jobs in western countires. And earning more from China.

2009-10-28 02:51 AM

#14

tradervic (Uncle Laowai)
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<arched eyebrow> From what I have seen...

... there has not been a big push to protect "Chinese" brands antimatter - which is supposed to be basis of a Chinese rise onto the world markets.

2009-10-28 03:20 AM

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BingSilk
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QUOTE:

Originally posted by tradervic at 2009-10-28 03:20
... there has not been a big push to protect "Chinese" brands antimatter - which is supposed to be basis of a Chinese rise onto the world markets.

How about we make a trade? China makes more cars and makes less bicycles. The west makes less cars and makes more bicycles?

Tade-off, are we even or balanced yet?

2009-10-28 05:25 AM

#16

interesting (Steven Schreiber)
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Bing,

Trader is pointing out that you really have no remedy as a Chinese company if one of your Chinese competitors rips off your product. In the US, if Apple ripped off Windows, Microsoft would rip Apple apart in court. In China, if Geely rips off BYD, there's really nothing BYD can do about it as a practical matter.

On my end, I'll just point out that discussions here demonstrate the extent to which most posters think more about foreign countries than about China. You and antimatter implicitly assume that the only reason for Chinese companies to develop any kind of technology is to compete with Western companies. Not so. The primary reason to develop a technology is to compete with your competitors and for most Chinese companies, that's other Chinese companies. Only later might it prove valuable as an export.

2009-10-28 06:37 AM

#17

ragerancher
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If China doesn't want to be at a disadvantage then invest in Research and development as opposed to copying. Can't blame others if China simply isn't even trying to reduce the technological advantage. That's like blaming a successful farmer who sowed his field and got the crops for the failure of another farmer who didn't. China is already putting up barriers giving Chinese companies an unfair advantage. Any disadvantage Chinese companies have is entirely their own fault. The environment they work in is hugely biassed in their favour.

Antimatter:
"here's my take
1)IP Protection ----protecting western monopoly of tech and products in China

2)Education----Chinese spend big money by sending their kids to western universities.

3)Currency----Create more jobs in western countires. And earning more from China. "

1) It's called property protection (intellectual and physical). Can't have someone taking credit for something that isn't theirs.

2) Why send kids to Western Unis? Why not send them to Chinese Unis? Is it because Chinese Unis are crap? Sorry for being better at it than you.

3) A huge number of jobs in manufacturing have gone from the West to China. Having a few back is perfectly fair.

[ Last edited by ragerancher at 2009-10-28 06:50 AM ]

2009-10-28 06:45 AM

#18

BingSilk
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QUOTE:

Originally posted by interesting at 2009-10-28 06:37
Bing,

Trader is pointing out that you really have no remedy as a Chinese company if one of your Chinese competitors rips off your product. In the US, if Apple ripped off Windows, Microsoft woul ...

Yes, you have an point.

But IP protection is double-edged sword.  It can help foster domestic development but also help foreigners monopolize because they are ahead currently.

so, to solve this dilemma,  how about IP protection for Chinese domestic companies only  , No protection for foreign products?

2009-10-28 06:49 AM

#19

ragerancher
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"so, to solve this dilemma, how about IP protection for Chinese domestic companies only , No protection for foreign products? "

Because then a Chinese company will steal something AND then on top of that will be protected. If China starts up such biassed policies, it would be the end of China. The world would view you as a highly biassed, xenophobic place that only pretends to follow free trade when actually it is highly protectionist. Chinese companies have already been protected from prosecution for blatant theft of tech and ideas. This would only support more theft.

2009-10-28 06:52 AM

#20

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