Chinadaily BBS - Free Talk - Can we leave atheism to non-believers?

Guest: Login | Register | Search | FAQ

Chinadaily BBS » News Talk» Free Talk» Can we leave atheism to non-believers?

Last Thread

Next Thread

anne_anne
Senior Member
Rank: 4

UID 167709
Digest Posts 4
Credits 2503
Posts 1022
Registered 2008-6-26
Status Offline

Can we leave atheism to non-believers?

By Op Rana (China Daily)
The ads are written simply on a background of blue sky with nebulous clouds, say news agency reports. The question they ask is simpler: "A million New Yorkers are good without God. Are you?" The ads will be splashed across the New York City's bustling subway stations on Oct 26, giving a whole new meaning to atheism (or agnosticism, if you will).

But more surprisingly, they will adorn the subway walls in a country, whose leaders have been invoking God to prove their honesty and purpose for almost three decades. The trend of concluding a major speech with "God bless America" was started by Richard Nixon. Addressing the nation live from the Oval Office in an attempt to overcome the Watergate scandal, Nixon ended his April 30, 1973 speech with: "Tonight, I ask for your prayers to help me in everything I do throughout the days of my presidency (he resigned just over 17 months later) ... God bless America and God bless each and everyone of you."

And though Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter eschewed the phrase, Ronald Reagan made "God bless America" the omnipotent slogan for US presidents. Later US politicians found in the phrase a simple way of passing the "God and Country test" and be seen by citizens as a real, God-fearing American.

The phrase acquired a new meaning when George W. Bush used it for eight years. But then Barack Obama is continuing the trend, even though his invocation is totally different from that of his predecessor.

All this makes it a little surprising to believe that the United States has a population sizable enough to plaster the walls of its financial capital with posters as "part of a coordinated multi-organizational advertising campaign designed to raise awareness about people who don't believe in a god".

Eight atheist organizations have come together to create the $25,000 (paid by an anonymous donor), month-long ad campaign that will challenge the belief in God. The Big Apple Coalition of Reason, which is running the ads, says it chose New York's subways because 5 million people use it every day.

The ads are "not poking fun at religion and not being outright nasty", Big Apple spokesman Michael de Dora has said. He is right to say people "don't need religion to be good and productive members of society" and nonbelievers "add to the cultural life of New York".

The intent of the ads is to get people talking and to encourage those who don't believe in God to speak up, say the campaigners. But do people need to talk about whether they believe in God or not?

Atheism, as opposed to professed or proselytizing religions, has always been a private affair. As an atheist, one feels good to know there are millions of others out there who share the same non-belief. But one tends not to believe in God not because of external influence. Atheism has always been based on reason, not preachings or belief (or non-belief). So why should it be made a public affair now?

Do we see in the campaign a definite design, a long-term money-spinning affair? Why does the release of a new book, aptly called Good Without God, by Greg Epstein, coincide with the timing of the ads?

Can't the market let even us atheists enjoy our world privately?

2009-10-25 11:06 AM

timbatu
Senior Member
Rank: 4

UID 183788
Digest Posts 0
Credits 3873
Posts 3563
Registered 2008-12-2
Status Offline

New York state is one of the MOST religious regionin the United States.
The versions of NY Christians and Jews are radical Sinophobes.

2009-10-25 11:23 AM

mickeymouth (Wowzers)
Primary Member
Rank: 2

UID 27995
Digest Posts 0
Credits 241
Posts 222
Registered 2004-4-30
Status Offline

QUOTE:

Originally posted by timbatu at 2009-10-25 11:23
New York state is one of the MOST religious regionin the United States.
The versions of NY Christians and Jews are radical Sinophobes.

Do you have shame ?

2009-10-25 11:44 AM

huang262
Moderator
Rank: 7

UID 81880
Digest Posts 0
Credits 2806
Posts 2563
Registered 2005-10-11
Location Southeast Asia
Status Offline

QUOTE:

Originally posted by anne_anne at 2009-10-25 11:06
Atheism has always been based on reason, not preachings or belief (or non-belief).

I disagree with this. It implies believe in God is not based on reason. I have no religion but I believe in God. Science, reason and religion are three different things. Don't mix them up!

2009-10-26 01:08 PM

satsu_jin
Super Member
Rank: 6

UID 138675
Digest Posts 0
Credits 11619
Posts 10280
Registered 2007-6-26
Location 日本国東京都
Status Offline

QUOTE:

Originally posted by huang262 at 2009-10-26 14:08

I disagree with this. It implies believe in God is not based on reason. I have no religion but I believe in God. Science, reason and religion are three different things. Don't mix them up!

A bit of a strange reaction from you. Of course religion or the existence of god isn't based on reason but on emotion. Isn't reason always based on facts?

2009-10-26 02:15 PM

constance6891 (Pls no question nationality)
Senior Member
Rank: 4

UID 241295
Digest Posts 0
Credits 2749
Posts 2489
Registered 2009-6-24
Status Offline

Science or what we call "reasoning","logic" etc cannot explain all things.

For example the existence of ghosts. No I'm talking about real ghosts and there are still place on earth where you can pay money to see a ghost. No props, just a ghost suddenly appear in front of you, just like a human being. Very neat as in no tricks, no cloth to cover etc....

Don't laugh at me before you try to check it out yourself. I'm just saying the truth.

2009-10-27 02:27 AM

Aleh1811
Junior Member
Rank: 3

UID 235764
Digest Posts 0
Credits 879
Posts 837
Registered 2009-6-3
Status Offline

That was just done to promote a book, coincidentally called 'Good without God´

As far as I can tell, there is no, nor has ever been, atheist proselytism

2009-10-27 02:33 AM

ragerancher
Junior Member
Rank: 3

UID 243069
Digest Posts 0
Credits 532
Posts 526
Registered 2009-7-2
Status Online

"there are still place on earth where you can pay money to see a ghost."
And if you don't pay you don't see a ghost I assume? I wouldn't have thought the dead would have given 2 hoots about their financial sustainability.

2009-10-27 03:01 AM

wiseoldlady (Teri Bach)
Primary Member
Rank: 2

UID 271443
Digest Posts 0
Credits 386
Posts 369
Registered 2009-9-24
Location At home
Status Offline

I don't think that religion or belief in god as emotional is a matter of course.

There is an order to the universe, a perfection which can be attributed to

cold science or godlike perfection.

Perhaps god is a scientist, nuclear phyisist(sp), physician.

I use god and religion emotionally sometimes, but god him/her/itself shouldn't

be pooh-poohed for that. God knows what has happened in the name of religion

throughout history.

and like Constance I believe in ghosts, too. They are not to be summoned, though.

There is something wrong with their spirits and they should stay in their world!

2009-10-27 03:14 AM

Aleh1811
Junior Member
Rank: 3

UID 235764
Digest Posts 0
Credits 879
Posts 837
Registered 2009-6-3
Status Offline

It's almost amusing the level harrasment many american atheist claim they face. I've never been to the country myself, but i would like to see if it's really like I see it from here. At least, in the internet, i've even seen comments from people that claim they would never allow an atheist in their family or even befriend one.

I'm sure those sort of comments would rejoyce Timbatu to incommensurable degrees,

2009-10-27 04:31 AM

#10

huang262
Moderator
Rank: 7

UID 81880
Digest Posts 0
Credits 2806
Posts 2563
Registered 2005-10-11
Location Southeast Asia
Status Offline

QUOTE:

Originally posted by satsu_jin at 2009-10-26 14:15
A bit of a strange reaction from you. Of course religion or the existence of god isn't based on reason but on emotion. Isn't reason always based on facts?

Yeah, it's odd that you tend to get a little irrational when it comes to this topic.

What is a fact? Anything that is measurable by science? You can't use science to measure art, so art doesn't exist?

2009-10-28 12:50 PM

#11

hehaiting
Newcomer
Rank: 1

UID 279418
Digest Posts 0
Credits 34
Posts 34
Registered 2009-10-14
Location guangdong
Status Offline

hehe

i just keep silence about it!1

2009-10-28 01:04 PM

#12

huang262
Moderator
Rank: 7

UID 81880
Digest Posts 0
Credits 2806
Posts 2563
Registered 2005-10-11
Location Southeast Asia
Status Offline

If 10 people are willing to testify in court that they saw me kill someone, that should be sufficient to hang me or put me away for a long time. These 10 people are witnesses.

There are thousands of people who say they have experienced God in some way, while science has no proof that God does not exist! So if we go to court, the scientists will lose! And that is a fact!

2009-10-28 01:45 PM

#13

harmless
Junior Member
Rank: 3

UID 274763
Digest Posts 0
Credits 1487
Posts 1415
Registered 2009-10-2
Status Offline

My funny observation with most atheist:

- they do not believe in any God

- most of them - if not all - have chosen a "substitute"

The "substitute-religion" in most cases has been an ideology, which can be of a different nature:

- fascism (often with some kind of personality cult)

- communism (often with some kind of personality cult)

There is hardly anyone on earth (or in this forum) who believes in nothing (nothing) !

2009-10-28 03:01 PM

#14

satsu_jin
Super Member
Rank: 6

UID 138675
Digest Posts 0
Credits 11619
Posts 10280
Registered 2007-6-26
Location 日本国東京都
Status Offline

QUOTE:

Originally posted by huang262 at 2009-10-28 13:50

Anything that is measurable by science? You can't use science to measure art, so art doesn't exist?

Anything that is measurable by science or can be counted, seen, felt etc. etc. Art is an expression of the human mind and can be counted or measured, can't it?

You could have done better, I believe.

2009-10-28 03:26 PM

#15

satsu_jin
Super Member
Rank: 6

UID 138675
Digest Posts 0
Credits 11619
Posts 10280
Registered 2007-6-26
Location 日本国東京都
Status Offline

QUOTE:

Originally posted by huang262 at 2009-10-28 14:45

There are thousands of people who say they have experienced God in some way, while science has no proof that God does not exist! So if we go to court, the scientists will lose! And that is a fact!

And what about the other 6,5 billion people who haven't?

Well, fantasy is also a part of humans' mind. Some have seen god, some have seen ghosts and so on. Haven't we all seen ghosts on this BBS?

2009-10-28 03:30 PM

#16

satsu_jin
Super Member
Rank: 6

UID 138675
Digest Posts 0
Credits 11619
Posts 10280
Registered 2007-6-26
Location 日本国東京都
Status Offline

QUOTE:

Originally posted by harmless at 2009-10-28 16:01
My funny observation with most atheist:

- they do not believe in any God

- most of them - if not all - have chosen a "substitute"

The "substitute-religion" in most ca ...

You forgot the most mighty and influental substitute - power.

Power can be money, position, influence etc. All religious leaders are driven by power that they hold to brainwash their sheeple. Don't underestimate it.

2009-10-28 03:34 PM

#17

harmless
Junior Member
Rank: 3

UID 274763
Digest Posts 0
Credits 1487
Posts 1415
Registered 2009-10-2
Status Offline

QUOTE:

Originally posted by satsu_jin at 2009-10-28 15:34

You forgot the most mighty and influental substitute - power.

Power can be money, position, influence etc. All religious leaders are driven by power that they hold to brainwash their shee ...

That is true.

But I lost the faith in my valet.

2009-10-28 03:42 PM

#18

Exergy
Junior Member
Rank: 3

UID 246707
Digest Posts 0
Credits 1507
Posts 1417
Registered 2009-7-16
Status Offline

QUOTE:

Originally posted by timbatu at 2009-10-25 11:23
New York state is one of the MOST religious regionin the United States.
The versions of NY Christians and Jews are radical Sinophobes.

I almost laughed at your little joke until I realized you were serious.

Utah is more religious. By a lot.

2009-10-28 03:42 PM

#19

harmless
Junior Member
Rank: 3

UID 274763
Digest Posts 0
Credits 1487
Posts 1415
Registered 2009-10-2
Status Offline

QUOTE:

Originally posted by timbatu at 2009-10-25 11:23
New York state is one of the MOST religious regionin the United States.
The versions of NY Christians and Jews are radical Sinophobes.

According to Wikipedia the State of New York has the following religions:

C atholics          40 %
Protestants          30%
Jews                      8.4%
M uslims                3.5%
Buddhists             1%
No religion          13%

What about the remaining 4,1 % ? (maybe Communist)

[ Last edited by harmless at 2009-10-28 03:53 PM ]

2009-10-28 03:52 PM

#20

Printable Version | Email to Friend | Subscription | Favorites


Forum Rules	Feedback	Privacy