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liuyedao
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QUOTE:

Originally posted by tradervic at 2009-10-3 09:10

Wow!

This is incredibly good.

I ask for your permission to use this picture.

2009-10-3 09:36 AM

#41

longzhou (longzhou)
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And btw....

remember to send a copy to Rudi thru any of his handles (harmless, plug&play, iamnaive, etc.....)

2009-10-3 09:40 AM

#42

liuyedao
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QUOTE:

Originally posted by longzhou at 2009-10-3 09:40
remember to send a copy to Rudi thru any of his handles (harmless, plug&play, iamnaive, etc.....)

Your instinct is so sharp to find him in short time.

He used to use username like: chessburger, hotchilli, nemnaniat, iamnaive, plugandplay... then? Do you have any memory.

I still wonder what made him so childish even after 56 years old.

2009-10-3 09:43 AM

#43

UYA
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QUOTE:

Originally posted by bern2009 at 2009-10-2 21:02

The baby is not "evil at birth". A baby is born into an imperfect world and thus will take up evil behaviour when he/she grows older.

This might partly be true, but only partly. I ...

Thanks for your input.

Did not say "ALL" wars were started by religion.....but most either directly or indirectly.

I got caught in the moment writing that post....

2009-10-3 09:53 AM

#44

wiseoldlady (Teri Bach)
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Re: post 40

Good one, TraderVic. Shocking at first, until one gets to the bottom

"Sometimes it's more important to understand the moral of the story than to believe the events literally happened as told."

Yes, many people have been hurt by others going "by the book."

2009-10-3 10:37 AM

#45

UYA
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QUOTE:

Originally posted by tradervic at 2009-10-3 09:10

Thanks for the pic

It sums up everything

2009-10-3 10:42 AM

#46

expatter
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Constantine and Constatinople 325 A.D

It seems the Bible was a compilation of writings rumours and beliefs.

Then made to be representative of the word of God.
tertullian.org/rpearse/nicaea.html

Here's my first example, from usenet:

In tracing the origin of the Bible, one is led to AD 325, when Constantine the Great called the First Council of Nicaea, composed of 300 religious leaders. Three centuries after Jesus lived, this council was given the task of separating divinely inspired writings from those of questionable origin.

The actual compilation of the Bible was an incredibly complicated project that involved churchmen of many varying beliefs, in an atmosphere of dissension, jealousy, intolerance, persecution and bigotry. At this time, the question of the divinity of Jesus had split the church into two factions. Constantine offered to make the little-known Christian sect the official state religion if the Christians would settle their differences. Apparently, he didn't particularly care what they believed in as long as they agreed upon a belief. By compiling a book of sacred writings, Constantine thought that the book would give authority to the new church.

Here's a second version of the same idea:

The references in the Christian religion of reincarnation, I am told, were removed by the Council of Nicea. (See Note A)

Here's a third version of this idea:

Also, we do know that there were many books of supposed prophets floating around up until 312 CE when the Council of Nicea decided which books were scripture and which ones were burned. Thanks to the notorious habit of early Christian leaders of destroying books/scrolls, we may never know what doctrine existed before the Council of Nicea.

And another even more extreme example:

Christianity consisted of many sects. By converting Constantine (The Great) the Paul heresy triumphed as the concept of trinity and the ending of the Mosaic law (which made swine flesh permissible) brought this version of Christianity very close to the Hellenic paganism that was practiced in Rome and Greece. At Nicea Constantine had 300 versions of the Bible burnt, thus legitimising and patronizing only the Paulic heresy.

By the 600's you had two church organizations. One in Rome the other or original in Constantinople. They both agreed not to have a head or supreme Bishop, but then Rome declared a supreme bishop (the Pope) and Constantinople did not. So you have the Catholic church in Rome and the Orthodox (meaning correct) church in the East. This of course preceded the next split which was Protestantism. So the original church is the Orthodox church, the Catholic version in Rome is a split away and Protestantism is a further breakaway from Catholicism.

Adhesion to any other version of the Orthodox church and the Catholic church is heresy and in the 1500's any other version than Protestantism was heresy. Either way you could never be right. The death caused by these beliefs and most other beliefs are truly spectacular.

theskepticalreview.com/JAHPoliticsDeathToll.html
"Anything that divides people breeds inhumanity. Religion serves that ugly purpose."

An example from this site:

-- Oliver Cromwell was deemed a moderate because he massacred only Catholics and Anglicans, not other Protestants. This Puritan general commanded Bible-carrying soldiers, whom he roused to religious fervor. After decimating an Anglican army, Cromwell said, "God made them as stubble to our swords." He demanded the beheading of the defeated King Charles I, and made himself the holy dictator of England during the 1650s. When his army crushed the hated Irish Catholics, he ordered the execution of the surrendered defenders of Drogheda and their priests, calling it "a righteous judgment of God upon these barbarous wretches."

Then of course you have the other religions of the world which seem to emulate the same pattern.

Pretty frightening stuff mostly.

2009-10-3 02:04 PM

#47

UYA
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QUOTE:

Originally posted by expatter at 2009-10-3 14:04
It seems the Bible was a compilation of writings rumours and beliefs.

Then made to be representative of the word of God.
tertullian.org/rpearse/nicaea.html

Here's my first example, from usen ...

Great post!

Good insight to the origins of church.

I have a cousin who is born again.

Believes Earth is 7000 years old....
Believes in original sin....
One way into heaven......
The War in Iraq.....

(He kills me)

Still waiting for the believers to weigh in on the subject.

2009-10-3 05:53 PM

#48

expatter
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UYA

The machinations of man.

This obviously does not prove or disprove that there may be a God.

But rather what happens when man uses this for his own ends.

2009-10-3 06:11 PM

#49

UYA
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QUOTE:

Originally posted by expatter at 2009-10-3 18:11
The machinations of man.

This obviously does not prove or disprove that there may be a God.

But rather what happens when man uses this for his own ends.

Not quite sure your meaning of your last post.

Can you explain?

A friend of mine here is wondering the reasoning of the "eye" on your avitar (is it all "seeing")?

2009-10-3 06:23 PM

#50

expatter
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UYA

The Bible may well be a mixture of different people's ideas and set into stone as, 'the truth'.

But it does not mean that there is a God or not.

There may be a God, there may not be, and the Bible is just a work created by man to have a written text to refer to.

A kind of handy proof that God exists to wave in front of the audience.

The fact that the Book may be a mixture of rubbish just means that the Bible is not true but a creation of man.

2009-10-3 06:47 PM

#51

emucentral (JB)
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QUOTE:

Originally posted by tradervic at 2009-10-3 11:10
Fire In the Hole!

Excellent work, and a very important reminder for the fundamentalist types.

2009-10-3 07:04 PM

#52

UYA
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Where is the religious?

Not sure why the "religious" has not replied to this post?

I know they are there.....

Would like to hear reasons people take the Bible as "uncorrupted" and "indisputable".

2009-10-4 11:24 AM

#53

Morgezuma
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"Would like to hear reasons people take the Bible as "uncorrupted" and "indisputable"."

It is the word of God. He protects it. If the bible was perverted by man or satan then there would be no sacred proof of devine truth.

from http://www.religioustolerance.org/inerran3.htm I quote the following text:

Inerrancy

Definition:
When applied to sacred writings, inerrancy is the belief that the words are God's true revelations to mankind. An inerrant text is considered infallible, truthful, reliable, totally free of error and absolutely authoritative. Inerrancy is not restricted to moral and religious truth. It is normally applied to all statements of fact in the Bible: "scientific, historical, or geographical." 1

Biblical passages about its own inspiration and inerrancy
The term "inerrancy" does not appear in the Bible. But then, words describing other important historical Christian beliefs are also missing: the Trinity, rapture, Purgatory, etc.

During the Dark Ages and Middle Ages, there was no need for a term such as "inerrancy." There was a consensus that the Bible was completely truthful and accurate. It was only with the arrival of The Enlightenment, when European theologians started to view the Bible as a historical document, that the literal truthfulness and accuracy of the Bible began to be doubted. In reaction to this criticism, conservative theologians introduced the concept of inerrancy.

There are many passages which state or imply that the authors of the Bible were inspired by God. Since errors, mistakes and duplicity are not generally regarded as qualities of God, inspiration by God would imply inerrancy of the text. Passages are found both in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) and in the Christian Scriptures (New Testament) which support inerrancy, either directly or indirectly.

Hebrew scriptures: Passages concerning the words of God being without error include: Psalms 12:6: "the words of the LORD are flawless"
Psalms 119:89: "Your word, O LORD, is eternal, it stands firm"
Proverbs 30:5-6: "Every word of God is flawless"

Christian scriptures: Matthew 5:18: "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." (KJV) A jot is the Greek letter "i" - the smallest letter in the alphabet; a tittle is a small mark used to aid in reading ancient Hebrew. This statement would seem to imply that the Mosaic law, given in the Hebrew Scriptures, was correct and valid in the 1st century CE during Jesus' ministry on earth. That is, the Law was inerrant; there was no justification for any deletions to the law. However, Jesus' statement would seem to permit additions to the law, as in Matthew 5:28 where Jesus equates looking at a woman with lust with committing adultery.
Gospels, Acts, Epistles: There are a number of passages which stated that the apostles would convey the words of the Holy Spirit when they were addressing a crowd or an accuser. One might infer from these passages that the Holy Spirit would also guide their written statements. Some examples from the Christian Scriptures are:  Matthew 10:19-20: "But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you."
Mark 13:11: "But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost."
Luke 12:11-12: "And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say: For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say."
Luke 21:14-15: "Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist."
John 16:13: "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."
Acts 1:8: "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth."
1 Corinthians 2:12-13: "Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual."

2009-10-4 01:22 PM

#54

exportedkiwi
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Reply #2 liuyedao's post

Funny how muslims do the same although they have the koran too huh?

2009-10-4 05:32 PM

#55

expatter
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Morgezuma

Yeh, not as funny as the previous post though.

2009-10-4 07:16 PM

#56

tradervic (Uncle Laowai)
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As long as you use this one as well...

QUOTE:

Originally posted by liuyedao at 10/2/2009 08:36 PM
Wow!

This is incredibly good.

I ask for your permission to use this picture.

... got to see if I can dig one up for the Torah to.

Image Attachment: fables2.jpg (2009-10-4 11:23 PM, 66.73 K)

2009-10-4 11:23 PM

#57

guangzhou52
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SKEPTICS:for your consideration:

At least look at the religion question metaphysically, before you dismiss it or even reject it emphatically.
For example; What do you know of reality? Is it possible that the world you see and know is an illusion?
What if it is a "dream" as the philosophical cliche goes?
Be absolutely honest with yourself.Think about it for a moment.
If you start to get the creepy feeling that the audience got at the end of "The Sixth Sense" you are thinking quite well intellectually and can imagine the comfort that some people would find in a book like the Bible that states outright that it is the truth.
Realizing this, are you now so ready to dismiss The Bible out of hand? Surely you don't have a heart of stone or a mind to match.

2009-10-8 12:49 AM

#58

liuyedao
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QUOTE:

Originally posted by exportedkiwi at 2009-10-4 17:32
Funny how muslims do the same although they have the koran too huh?

Of course.

Since so, why we need religion?

2009-10-8 12:52 AM

#59

ragerancher
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I love how people try to make out that some really tough questions such as "what is the meaning of life" are far too complex to understand and in the next breath are telling you that they know all the answers from the Bible or holy book. If these questions are so complex that you can't understand them rationally, that doesn't make the simple irrational argument automatically correct. This was shown time and again when people thought things like thunderstorms and volcanoes were the acts of gods. A simple irrational belief is accepted because the more complicated rational one simply wasn't around at the time.

2009-10-8 06:04 AM

#60

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