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chinadaily (chinadaily)
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Chávez: the fall of the American empire ???

Critics Assail Weak Dollar at OPEC Event

(ny times)

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia — A rare meeting of the heads of state of the OPEC countries ended here today on a political note, with two leaders — President Hugo Chávez of Venezuela and President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran — blaming the weakness of the United States dollar for high oil prices.

Despite the best efforts of the host country, Saudi Arabia, to steer the meeting away from politics and promote OPEC’s environmental concerns, the leaders of Venezuela and Iran let loose some show-stealing statements.

“The dollar is in free fall, everyone should be worried about it,” Mr. Chávez told reporters here. “The fall of the dollar is not the fall of the dollar — it’s the fall of the American empire.”

During a news conference after the meeting, Mr. Ahmadinejad added: “The U.S. dollar has no economic value.”

Mr. Ahmadinejad said that oil, which was hovering last week at close to $100 a barrel, was being sold currently for a “paltry sum.” And Mr. Chávez predicted that prices would rise to $200 a barrel if the United States were “crazy enough” to strike at Iran, or even at his own country.

Normally, meetings of the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries are tepid affairs where ministers leave politics at the door and talk about oil inventory and supply and demand. This unusual meeting, held amid the pomp and glitter of the Saudi royal court, had been planned since last December but happened to fall at a time of renewed concern over record oil prices and the shrinking value of the dollar.

At the summit’s opening ceremony on Saturday, Mr. Chávez sought to bring OPEC back to its militant and revolutionary roots.

“OPEC should set itself up as an active political agent,” Mr. Chávez said, addressing about 1,000 guests in a conference center by the royal quarters.

While Mr. Chávez’s 23-minute statement was brief by his own standards, it drew a gentle rebuke from King Abdullah, the Saudi monarch, who chided him for talking longer than the time allotted by royal protocol. He also turned down Mr. Chávez’s plea, saying: “Those who want OPEC to take advantage of its position are forgetting that OPEC has always acted moderately and wisely.”

It is only the third time in OPEC’s 47-year history that such a high-level meeting has taken place. The first was in Algiers, in 1975, at the height of OPEC’s nationalist period; the second was in 2000, when the oil cartel met in Venezuela to devise a strategy to increase prices after they had collapsed to about $10 a barrel in the late 1990s.

This meeting, which lasted less than 24 hours, was supposed to focus on long-term issues like the security of supplies and environmental policy. The Saudis in particular sought to reassure the world that OPEC was a reliable oil supplier.

“OPEC has made a point, from its establishment, to work for the stability of the oil markets,” said the Saudi foreign minister, Prince Faisal, at a news conference after the close of the summit on Sunday. “Oil should be a tool of construction and development, not one of dispute.”

Saudi Arabia also wanted to highlight a new emphasis on protecting the environment by announcing the establishment of a $750 million fund to reduce carbon emissions. The kingdom will contribute $300 million for research into technology that captures carbon spewed by power plants or refineries and stores it underground. In addition, Kuwait, the United Arab Emirates, and Qatar will provide $150 million each.

Oil producers see climate policies that focus on oil consumption as an unfair way to curb the use of fossil fuels worldwide. By financing research into carbon emissions, Saudi Arabia says it is seeking ways to extend the use of petroleum resources at a time when global warming could lead to changes in consumer behavior in Western countries.

“We want to continue using fossil fuels while protecting the environment,” said Mohammad al-Sabban, a senior Saudi government adviser on climate change. “What we are worried about is for industrialized countries to use climate policy as a pretext to discriminate against oil.”

Other ministers also expressed the more moderate views that typically emerge from an OPEC meeting. Despite Mr. Ahmadinejad’s statement about oil prices being paltry, officials from several other countries — including the United Arab Emirates, Nigeria and Saudi Arabia — said that prices were too high.

“We are going down uncharted territory, and everyone should be cautious,” said Odein Ajumogobia, Nigeria’s oil minister, referring to the current prices.

The weakness of the dollar proved to be even more controversial here and created frictions among members of the group. Iran — with the backing of Venezuela and OPEC’s newest member, Ecuador — worked hard to persuade the group that it should mention the falling dollar in the summit’s final declaration.

But Saudi Arabia rejected Iran’s proposal, saying that such a move might provoke a “collapse” of the dollar. During a closed session on Friday that was mistakenly broadcast on an internal television circuit, Prince Saud al-Faisal said the issue was too delicate to be included in a statement.

In the end, the Saudis were forced to yield a little. The final statement, while making no mention of the dollar, said OPEC would “study ways and means of enhancing financial cooperation among OPEC member countries.”

According to Iran, OPEC will also look for ways to establish a currency basket to offset the declining value of the dollar. But Saudi Arabia and other Persian Gulf countries are opposed to this old idea, and few analysts believe it has any chance of succeeding.

It is too early to say whether the views expressed by Mr. Chávez and Mr. Ahmadinejad signaled a rift in the exceptional consensus that has sustained OPEC’s success in recent years, or whether they were merely an example of conference theatrics by countries at odds with the American government. In the end, it fell to Ali al-Naimi, the Saudi oil minister, and the main architect of OPEC’s focus on business fundamentals in recent years, to underline the conference’s main message.

“Everyone knows that OPEC has renounced the principle of controlling oil prices since the 1980s,” Mr. Naimi said at a news conference on Sunday. “Since then, the price has been determined by the market. The fluctuations you are witnessing today have nothing to do with OPEC actions.”

The meeting was held in a conference center that was a gaudy mix of the palace at Versailles and Greek Revival style, with some rococo touches. It also displayed the whole range of Saudi extravagance: blue marble floors, gold-plated fixtures, and dozens of crystal chandeliers, some bigger than trucks.

Vera de Ladoucette, an energy analyst with the Cambridge Energy Research Associates who was here to observe the summit, said: “This shows a new dimension to OPEC, which is the environment. This could be a defensive stance to improve their image. But also, a way of acting against anything that might reduce demand for oil.”

2007-11-19 09:32 AM

kongque
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QUOTE:

Originally posted by chinadaily at 19-11-2007 11:32
Critics Assail Weak Dollar at OPEC Event

(ny times)

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia — A rare meeting of the heads of state of the OPEC countries ended here today on a political note, with two leaders ...

Hugo certainly speaks his piece - so far he has managed to survive all the assassination attempts on him from the US - but how long can he stay lucky for?

It is interesting world politics at the moment - I just received and email from a friend in Canada - I found the following comment from him to be quite an eye opener.

quote: "Sonya and I just recently joined a friend hiking down into the Grand Canyon, USA. We dont spend much time in Bush's country but our dollar has recently matched the US buck in value. The Canuck buck used to be worth 0.60 of a US dollar but now it is par thanks to Bush's neverending pursuit of 'saving the world" from themselves. The US is literally bankrupting themselves using the same tactics they used to break the Soviet Union." unquote.

Very interesting situation developing for "The Empire" - they certainly have the right Emporer in the job though - it appears Bush is a great stand in for Nero - fiddling while the Empire crumbles.

2007-11-19 06:47 PM

tradervic (Uncle Laowai)
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How much reserves does Venezuela have?

QUOTE:

Originally posted by kongque at 11/19/2007 04:47 AM
Hugo certainly speaks his piece - so far he has managed to survive all the assassination attempts on him from the US - but how long can he stay lucky for?

As long as Hugo can sell oil - after that, who knows.

For all the talk, I have yet to see a single CITGO station close down in Chicago due to good o' Hugo.

2007-11-19 10:45 PM

tongluren (tongluren)
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Start Worrying

The Cartel admits that Bush and Cheney have much more power than they to push oil to $300 per barrel, and push the entire world over a barrel, punishing most severely the less developed nations for being poor, while inconveniencing Americans.

http://www.opednews.com/articles ... __28more_29_war.htm

"The 13-nation cartel once controlled prices often by just talking about pumping more or less oil. But now its leaders say booming world demand – largely from India and China – and concern over a possible US attack on Iran are driving prices.

The article also quotes an oil industry analyst, Mustafa Alani, of the Gulf Research Center in Dubai, UAE, who says, "...there's very little they [the OPEC leaders] can do if there's an attack on Iran or something of that nature. In that case, prices will double, perhaps go to $300 a barrel."

It may be that Defense Secretary Robert Gates and his generals, Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice, and the leaders of many of America's Fortune 500 companies are opposed to an attack on Iran, knowing that it will be a military disaster and that it would cause a global economic collapse, but the US today is being led by two insane and desperate men, who may not care what any of those people think. With their domestic and international policies in ruins and their legacy a disaster, they may have decided to double up on their bet and just throw everything in with an air assault on Iran.

Keep watching those oil prices. If they start really bumping up from their current level, hold on to your Constitution--and get the hell out of dollars--because they're both going down."

2007-11-20 03:29 AM

chinadaily (chinadaily)
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Associated Press: What the two boys are doing to America !!

Chavez, Ahmadinejad to work against US

By NASSER KARIMI, Associated Press Writer

The presidents of Venezuela and Iran boasted Monday that they will defeat U.S. imperialism together, saying the fall of the dollar is a prelude to the end of Washington's global dominance.

Hugo Chavez's visit to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in Tehran followed a failed weekend attempt by the firebrand duo to push the Organization of Petroleum Exporting States away from trading in the slumping greenback.

Their proposal at an OPEC summit was overruled by other cartel members led by Saudi Arabia, a strong U.S. ally. But the cartel agreed to have OPEC finance ministers discuss the idea, and the two allies' move showed their potential for stirring up problems for the U.S.

The alliance between Chavez and Ahmadinejad has blossomed with several exchanged visits — Monday's was Chavez's fourth time in Tehran in two years — a string of technical agreements and a torrent of rhetoric presenting their two countries as an example of how smaller nations can stand up to the superpower.

"Here are two brother countries, united like a single fist," Chavez said upon his arrival in Tehran, according to Venezuela's state-run Bolivarian News Agency.

"God willing, with the fall of the dollar, the deviant U.S. imperialism will fall as soon as possible, too," Chavez said after a two-hour closed meeting with Ahmadinejad, the Iranian state news agency IRNA reported.

As the dollar weakens, oil prices have soared toward $100 a barrel. Chavez said over the weekend at the OPEC meeting in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, that prices would more than double to $200 if the U.S. attacked Iran or Venezuela.

"The U.S. empire is coming down," Chavez told Venezuelan TV, calling the European Union's euro a better option and saying Latin American nations were also considering a common currency.

The leftist Venezuelan is a fierce critic of President Bush, and Iran's Islamic government is in a bitter standoff with Washington over Tehran's nuclear program. The U.S. accuses Iran of seeking to develop nuclear weapons, a claim Tehran denies, and Iran has been hit with two rounds of U.N. sanctions for refusing to suspend uranium enrichment.

Ahmadinejad backed his "dear brother" Chavez in their joint fight with the Bush administration.

"We have common viewpoints and we will stand by each other until we capture the high peaks. God is with us and victory is awaiting us," Ahmadinejad was quoted as saying by IRNA. He said he and Chavez would stick together to defend their "nations and ideals to the end."

During the OPEC meeting, Iran and Venezuela proposed that the cartel begins pricing its oil in a basket of currencies, rather than just the dollar, and wanted the summit to specifically express concern over the dollar's slide in its final statement.

Saudi Arabia blocked those moves. Saudi Arabia's foreign minister cautioned that even talking publicly about the currency's decline could further hurt its value.

Chavez repeated his warnings that attacking Iran would further increase oil prices. "It's very important that they leave us in peace, the major oil-producing countries," he said.

"If it occurs to Bush to invade Iran, I'm sure the Iranians will resist, and they aren't going to allow them to take away their oil, just as we Venezuelans wouldn't allow it," he said.

In Tehran, the two presidents signed four memorandums of understanding Monday to create a joint bank, a fund, an oil industry technical training program and an industrial agreement, Iranian state television said. It said Chavez then left after an official farewell ceremony.

On Chavez's previous visit in July, the two leaders broke ground for construction of a jointly owned petrochemical complex in Iran, with 51 percent of it in Iranian ownership and 49 percent to be owned by Venezuela. The two nations also began construction of a second petrochemical complex in Venezuela, at a total combined cost of $1.4 billion.

Chavez and Ahmadinejad believe their petrochemical partnership will help Iran win markets in Latin America and Venezuela to gain access to Asia's energy market, especially India.

Since 2001, the two countries have signed more than 180 trade agreements, worth more than $20 billion in potential investment, according to official reports.

Iran has partnered with Venezuela on several industrial projects in the South American nation, including the production of cars, tractors and plastic goods.

2007-11-20 08:41 AM

chinadaily (chinadaily)
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Ailing dollar falls to historic low against euro

NEW YORK (AFP) - The ailing US dollar tumbled to a historic low against the euro Tuesday as concerns mounted about US economic growth after the Federal Reserve trimmed back its growth projections, traders said.

Fears of slower economic growth, largely driven by a lingering housing slump and a related credit squeeze, have weighed heavily on the dollar in recent weeks.

Fears that overseas investors and countries, especially China which holds over a trillion dollars in foreign exchange reserves, could sell or convert their dollar holdings have also depressed the dollar.

The euro, which has rocketed in value against the dollar this year, soared as high as 1.4853 dollar.

The euro hits its highest level against the dollar since the single currency's creation in 1999.

"When concerns over the economy grow, you turn to stable currencies -- for example the dollar, but ultimately the dollar is going down so now you would buy the euro," said Neil Mellor, a currency strategist at Bank of New York.

Falling interest rates have also depressed the dollar, the Fed cut borrowing costs in September and October in a bid to underpin economic momentum, as investors generally prefer to invest in countries where rates are rising or higher.

The central bank slashed its outlook for 2008 US economic growth Tuesday, citing weakness in housing and tighter credit conditions, and suggested policymakers are unsure about future interest rate cuts.

The central bank projected growth next year in a range of 1.8 to 2.5 percent down from a prior forecast of 2.5 to 2.75 percent.

"The US dollar posted its largest single-day loss in over a year, as speculation for future US Federal Reserve interest rate cut doomed the greenback to further drops," said David Rodriguez, a currency analyst at Forex Capital Markets.

"Continued speculation that key oil producing countries may drop the dollar as their primary reserve currency has clearly hurt the dollar, while increasingly pessimistic forecasts for US economic growth and interest rates has likewise hurt confidence in the dollar," Rodriguez said.

The dollar's demise was hotly debated at an OPEC meeting this past weekend in Saudia Arabia as the oil producing cartel currently prices oil in dollars.

Fed chairman Ben Bernanke has said US growth is likely to cool in future months and economists say the housing downturn is unlikely to improve any time soon.

2007-11-21 08:55 AM

chinadaily (chinadaily)
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where is the light at the end of the tunnel ?? forumites

2007-11-21 08:56 AM

tongluren (tongluren)
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There Will Be More Turmoil Before The'd Be Peace Again

Until the Yanks are truly "spent" (in more than one sense of the word), unfortunately the world will see no peace.

China has better plan on pumping up domestic demands, especially to boost domestic manfacture.

2007-11-21 09:11 AM

kongque
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QUOTE:

Originally posted by tradervic at 20-11-2007 00:45

As long as Hugo can sell oil - after that, who knows.

For all the talk, I have yet to see a single CITGO station close down in Chicago due to good o' Hugo.

Chavez in isolation is nothing more than a dog fart in a typhoon. His rhetoric is of course coloured by the angst that exists between him and the US regime(s) - sort of like a "pale Castro" - but the thing is he is not really in isolation - around the world there is a steadily growing mindset that the once powerful USA has become little more than a toothless tiger (possibly a wrong analogy) or a wounded snake.

Unfortunately the last people who will realise the truth about realtime are the US citizens who will be lashed with "patriotic" rhetoric and catch phrases like "they hate us because of our freedom".

It is critical for the world and particularly for the US people to promote a real shift in foreign policy in the US.

Oil will be the least of our worries soon.

Our planet has become too small for the policies of yesteryear to be acceptable - if we all do not start to live in harmony very soon then none of us will live at all.

2007-11-21 03:42 PM

kongque
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QUOTE:

Originally posted by chinadaily at 21-11-2007 10:56
where is the light at the end of the tunnel ?? forumites

CD - for the past three decades I have collected a lot of data in what would at first appear to be isolated fields - but when brought into concert the data has a specific meaning.

When I entered the data streams into graphical display form (thousands of hours of research from books before the advent of the internet and thousands of hours of writing before MS Excel) there is a very real and very frightening trendline revealed.

The trend does not indicate that there is a light at the end of the tunnel - in fact it does not even indicate that there is an end to the tunnel.........................

2007-11-21 03:49 PM

#10

caringhk (O Sweetie&Me go laojia. ..)
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QUOTE:

Originally posted by kongque at 2007-11-21 15:42

Chavez in isolation is nothing more than a dog fart in a typhoon. His rhetoric is of course coloured by the angst that exists between him and the US regime(s) - sort of like a "pale Cast ...

pls goto Talking China u will find more on Hugo......

2007-11-21 03:57 PM

#11

caringhk (O Sweetie&Me go laojia. ..)
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QUOTE:

Originally posted by kongque at 2007-11-21 15:49

CD - for the past three decades I have collected a lot of data in what would at first appear to be isolated fields - but when brought into concert the data has a specific meaning.

When I ent ...

Why no lights???

are u as worried as Einstein where Oppenheimer show him the atomic bomb formula???

2007-11-21 03:58 PM

#12

tongluren (tongluren)
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Glass is Half Full

But the world is also coming up with nice surprises all the time, like the major Brazilian oil find this week:

http://www.businessweek.com/bwda ... nessweek+exclusives

Not to be outdone, the Chinese nuclear industry announced a share swap deal, in which China gets 49% of a Kharzhakstan uranium mine, in exchange for shares in power generation in China. Win win opportunities are constantly presenting themselves.

The reality is that, despite the hegemon's wishful thinking, the world does not revolve around just one country, no matter how rich or powerful that nation used to be. So who cares where that tunnel leads? The world can travel in sunlight and fresh air, and let the hegemon dig itself a hole - mayhap for the sake of mankind, the deeper the better.

2007-11-21 04:09 PM

#13

wowzers (Andrew)
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QUOTE:

What role does your tinfoil hat play in all this?

2007-11-21 04:22 PM

#14

kongque
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QUOTE:

Originally posted by caringhk at 21-11-2007 17:58

Why no lights???

are u as worried as Einstein where Oppenheimer show him the atomic bomb formula???

More so my friend.

The atomic bomb is as nothing compared to what my research indicates is in store for us.

I once had a website where I had the potential future of humanity outlined. I had to remove it because a lot of young people emailed me saying they were feeling like suicide because there was no future for humanity. It was a very strange response to what I thought was simply conclusions drawn from years of scientific research. I would spend hours on the internet talking to these young people and convincing them that my conclusions were not "carved in stone" - merely potential outcomes.

I felt it was better not to disclose what I had discovered, and I removed the website. I had not realised the impact on the young people who were already going through a very rough time with hormones etc. many of them were in a very vulnerable state and needed hope for the future - they could not handle any thoughts of an insecure future.

It was a surprise for me when I actually received an email from an ex head of NASA saying he agreed with my conclusions and hoped we were both wrong........... unofficially of course...........

2007-11-21 06:14 PM

#15

kongque
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QUOTE:

Originally posted by wowzers at 21-11-2007 18:22

What role does your tinfoil hat play in all this?

Why don't you tell me - you seem to know it all................. after all you have done the research haven't you.........

2007-11-21 06:16 PM

#16

kongque
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QUOTE:

Originally posted by tongluren at 21-11-2007 18:09
But the world is also coming up with nice surprises all the time, like the major Brazilian oil find this week:

[url]http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/nov2007/db20071115_045316. ...

that just reminded of those old cartoons where someone starts digging a hole in Amerika and comes out in China.......... maybe "Dubya" will try that next - he seems to have tried just about every other stupid move while he has been Th' Prez'dent.

2007-11-21 06:33 PM

#17

wowzers (Andrew)
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QUOTE:

Originally posted by kongque at 2007-11-21 18:16

Why don't you tell me - you seem to know it all................. after all you have done the research haven't you.........

What?
All this tells me is that you know how to use the smiley button.

2007-11-22 12:08 AM

#18

wowzers (Andrew)
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In addition of course, to wearing a tinfoil hat, now that's multi-tasking.

2007-11-22 12:10 AM

#19

kongque
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why do so many posts evaporate into the ether?

very frustrating.... :-(

2007-11-24 05:37 PM

#20

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