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iluv2fish (iluv2fish)
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"gap between haves and have-nots...is growing"

Closing gap between haves and have-nots

....by Fu Jing...page 1...

Closing gap between haves and have-nots

By Fu Jing (China Daily)

Updated: 2005-12-17 07:12

A new report is urging the Chinese Government to focus on giving migrant workers and farmers a fair chance since the gap between the haves and have-nots has already become a threat toward the country's social harmony.

A set of policy suggestions to close the gap between them and other social groups in China was found in the China National Human Development Report 2005 released on Friday, which was commissioned by the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP).

The government should take actions to ensure the punctual payment of salaries, provision of shelter, access to education for children, social security entitlements and union membership, the report said.

"Achieving development with greater equity and ensuring that all people, including the disadvantaged groups, have equal opportunities and a decent life free from poverty should be the future focus of China's future development plans," said Khalid Malik, UN Resident Co-ordinator and UNDP Resident Representative in China, in an interview with China Daily.

UNDP China expected the report, with the theme of "Towards Development with Equity," to become a major reference for the policy makers of the Chinese Government, which has been busy drafting its 11th Five-year (2006-10) Economic and Social Development Plan.

China has been trying to find a balance between efficiency and equality in income distribution. As the country's economy took off, however, priority was given to efficiency, and a huge number of farmers, migrants and even some urban labourers at the lower rungs of the social ladder have been economically affected, according to the report.

Even in the relatively developed Pearl River Delta in South China's Guangdong Province, a migrant worker earns only around 700 yuan (US$85) per month. In Chinese rural areas, about 30 million people still live in poverty and 60 million live close to the national poverty line with an annual income of 637 yuan (US$79).

The report said that it's of great importance to promote fairness in income distribution as a way to curb unstable factors that could endanger social stability and public security.

China's Gini coefficient an internationally accepted measurement of income equality was estimated by some research organizations at 0.45 this year. The "alarm boundary" stands at 0.4. The coefficient was 0.30 in 1982 and 0.45 in 2002. Among the 131 countries in the UNDP's updated survey, only 31 countries are in a worse situation than China in terms of equality in income distribution.

"We need to look at the problems and come up with constructive suggestions," said Lu Mai, secretary-general of the China Development Research Foundation. "It is high time for the government to target balanced social development as a major policy target as China is trying to quadruple its economy by 2020."

2005-12-27 12:59 PM

greendragon
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Mr. Fish....we are tackling our problems...

..even if we only have 0.5% of our male adult population in prison...ie. our poor or not so poor desparadoes...

compare that to the United States...some 1.5 - 2% of adult male population in prison....so many desparadoes...

and to think in America..the law is lenient to the criminals.....

only Singapore..you loving pupil and dog..is second in the ranking....

rest of the BRITISH CLUB is quite similar to China's figures...

so...we have DONE VERY WELL, thank you on social JUSTICE!!!!!!

cheerios!

fm
Green Dragon

2005-12-27 01:25 PM

caringhk (O Sweetie&Me go laojia. ..)
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Reply #1 iluv2fish's post

Yes Miss Fish

China recognise the GAP long ago and actions taken since then!!!
Even beggars has a place to pool resources but not on the streets!!!
Who can help people with low karma???
Only the higher ones!!!

Glad that you recognise too!!!

How do one go about in the USA???
Still we see people lived under the bridges or elsewhere!!!

2005-12-28 01:32 PM

chinadaily (chinadaily)
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How many beggars (homeless plus) are there in the states now?

[[ How do one go about in the USA???
Still we see people lived under the bridges or elsewhere! ]]

Really?

2005-12-28 11:42 PM

iluv2fish (iluv2fish)
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It is fair you ask this question...

....so let me share a story with you.

I had a friend and we hung around together. We went to parties, concerts, out for weekends
of fun. He was not a close friend, but I always saw him around.

As the years passed and my partying days got less I went to work and work and work....you
know what I mean. I was trying to get ahead.

Then one day, on my way to get a bus, I seemed some homeless people drinking some
beer and much to my suprise was my old buddy. He offered me some beer (I was going to
work ) and asked for money. He said he would pay me back but I knew he wouldn't. I gave
him some money anyway.

After a short conversation he just came out and said he did not want to be a slave to the
masters and get a job. It puzzeled me as he was a bright, energetic, intelligent person.
He had cashed out on life.

Under the bridges you will find these people here in America. Some are not all there
upstairs, some are lazy, and some wnat to be "totally free".

We have many programs here in America if you are down on your luck. In fact any of these
people can get free food, free shelter and free medical attention if they obey the rules.
Many do not want to follow the rules.

When I speak about the ever widening gap in China, I was not talking about the homeless
but about the average "Joe". Does China take care of their homeless and down on thier
luck people like we do in the USA?

2005-12-29 12:54 PM

chinadaily (chinadaily)
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New scheme helps city's homeless
By Qiu Quanlin (China Daily)
Updated: 2005-06-16 05:48

GUANGZHOU: Homeless people in Guangdong Province's capital are now being given help on the streets instead of having to go and find it for themselves.

New measures that took effect earlier this year mean outreach workers find homeless people themselves and send them to the shelter.

The workers are from Guangzhou Aid Station for Homeless People, under the Guangzhou Civil Affairs Bureau.

Under the new scheme, workers at the shelter frequently goes onto the streets to identify homeless people and persuade them to receive help at the station.

A 63-year-old homeless woman, surnamed Wang, who has been roaming about the city's streets for a number of years, is one of those who have been helped.

She was taken to the aid station after workers explained the shelter policy to her.

"Roaming about the streets is very hard for an older person," she said.

Wang once considered seeking help from the shelter, but she could not find ite because there were no proper signs to direct her there.

Guangzhou introduced the Measures on Aid and Management of Urban Vagrants and Beggars in 2003, the year when the government-funded the shelter were established in the city.

In addition, the city established a relief and protection centre for street children in 2003.

Before implementation of the measures, the public were reminded just how needed they were by an incident in the city in 2003.

Sun Zhigang, a 27-year-old graphic designer from Hubei Province, was mistaken for a vagrant and detained as he did not have his temporary residency card or identification card with him.

He was then beaten to death by inmates while at a repatriation centre several days later.

This case helped accelerate the launch of the new aid measures for urban vagrants and beggars.

Under the new measures, homeless people are not being forced to go to the shelter.

"More effort is needed to allow assistance to reach the needy more quickly and efficiently," said Li Weijie, director of the local civil affairs bureau.

2005-12-29 02:57 PM

caringhk (O Sweetie&Me go laojia. ..)
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Reply #5 iluv2fish's post

Laziness is a big problem in humans!!!

Certain exercises will help eliminate the laziness!!!
Like bowing and praying!!!

But how to bring the horse to the water???

Yes Ms Fish - I see your posts getting better!!! Friendlier!!!
I wonder on your former style? Do you ever have have problem with your "man" if you blurted such words out??? Eg " Slant eyes"

i heard there are also old folks homes in China where the elderly are talen care off. You know with "one child", It is hard for the elderly separated by distance 'cos need to work elsewhere to earn a living!!!

2005-12-29 03:10 PM

canchin (canchin)
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QUOTE:

Originally posted by chinadaily at 2005-12-28 23:42
[[ How do one go about in the USA???
Still we see people lived under the bridges or elsewhere! ]]

Really?

Really! I was just in the States - LA (twice) New York and Washington DC.

I saw beggars and people living on the streets in...LA (twice) New York and Washington DC.

I was accosted and asked for money in...LA, New York, and Washington DC.

I saw children dressed in rags and living in slums in...LA, New York, and Washington DC.

I saw examples of the very rich and examples of the very poor in...LA, New York, and Washington DC.

I talked with members of the top 1% in America and the bottom 50% in...LA, New York, and Washington DC.

The only difference between those "examples" and what I see in China is...in America they like to delude themselves into thinking it is different.

The only real difference I see between the people in the States and China is unfortunately not really a difference...Americans don't like to admit that there are millions of homeless and impoverished (including millions of children) while far too many Chinese people believe the American propaganda that there are not millions of homeless and impoverished in America.

Then again, it would of course make some in foreign countries feel better if there was no "growing gap" because then they could criticize because nobody was rising out of the lowest income brackets.

I, on the other hand, think it is a great indication of what has been happening in China - hundreds of millions of people being lifted out of povery and into not just the middle-class but to positions of wealth. Then those wealthy - (for the most part although there are of course as in any country those that hoard what they have without using it to generate more for others) - can establish companies and employ their countrymen and improve the lot in life of their workers, who will then purchase food, clothing, houses, goods - and stimulate the economy to the point that others will create companies that will compete with that "other" successful company and more people will be employed and use their money to stimulate the economy and the circle just keeps expanding until all are included...and THEN...China can consider slowing down, but not until.

Poor China, damned - by others - if she does, damned - by others - if she doesn't.

Another fine indication of the higher status of evolution in China in that the China government and more and more people are responding to that "damning" by gently extending their arm toward the person, country or whatever doing the damning...and slowly raising their middle finger!

2005-12-29 03:59 PM

caringhk (O Sweetie&Me go laojia. ..)
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Reply #8 canchin's post

Yes Canchin - Seeing is believing!!! For children eyes does not lie!!!

That CD quote is actually mine if you read one post up!!!
But never mind as now eyes are opened!!!

You are right with money to create more money thru jobs!!!
Now to have the right frame of mind!!!

2005-12-29 04:06 PM

iluv2fish (iluv2fish)
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"don't like to admit that there are millions of homeless "

Canchin...this was a post about China's have nots but once again you focus 8000 miles
away. Why can you not keep your focus on China? It is okay to defend China to too constantly
belittle America makes me wonder what you have to hide in China.

As for the American homeless....and yes children too (runaways) and a some homeless
families (very few) ... YOU DO NOT HAVE TO LIVE ON THE STREETS.

The great American government has provided many programs for the homeless at a great
cost. There are shelters, welfare, homes, food-s$$ps, churches etc. here in America. Don't
get me wrong in saying our system is perfect but we assist the down and trodden VERY
much.

Now back to China...once you take the voluntary homeless people off the street, what do
you do with them? Do they get free medical treatment? Do you put them to work? What if
they want to go on the street again.

I don't mind talking about the homeless. I live in Florida where the temperatures this week-end
will be about 80 degree's F. We do get thousands of homeless that flee the northern cold
weather and they migrate south every year. They hold signs that will work for food, but when
you say you have work for them they just smile and say "maybe later".

I do believe (that is my right Canchin) that about 80% of all homeless is voluntary.

2005-12-30 10:47 AM

#10

caringhk (O Sweetie&Me go laojia. ..)
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Reply #10 iluv2fish's post

Yes Ms Fish

I agree with you that there are stubborn ones!!!
And some i have seen who just refuse to work 'cos they want big bucks!!!
And not talk about addicts!!! Another real headache.

2005-12-30 11:06 AM

#11

canchin (canchin)
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Reply #10 iluv2fish's post

Well fishy, I see the sides of your fishbowl need cleaning because you didn't see that I was replying to another posters, post.

That poster had asked a question in response to a third posters comments.

I answered the question.

You didn't like the answer. Perhaps because it took much away from your attempt to single out an aspect of all countries in the world and try to suggest such is only a factor to life in China.

Don't like my reply to the post noted in my "quote"...too bad.

Find another aspect of life in all countries and try and suggest that it is a problem exclusive to China and I will respond in like manner. Don't be deluded that just because the forum has undergone some new changes that I am about to refrain from responding your attempts to belittle China.

2005-12-30 11:28 AM

#12

holidays (holidays)
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Here we go again!

Why every time somebody tries to say something needs to be done in China, it always turn into a blame game. If I have a bat in my cave, I would appreciate someone points it out to me. I would rather being embarrassed for a second than walking around with it all day long.
There are great difference of Chinese homeless and American homeless. In America, there are always free shelters and free food for the homeless. If a homeless person is injured or hurt, he or she can receive free hospital care. But that is complete different situation in China. In China, there is NO safety net for the poor, not to mention to the homeless. I am surprised China still labels himself socialist. Do we still remember what socialism is?
Well, let’s go back to the beginning. I remember back in school. I was taught that socialism is the collective ownership of property and its egalitarian distribution. It enlarges the sphere of individual freedom by releasing people from economic, from undo and unnecessary economic constraint and exploitation.
I guess this idea is no longer poplar because for the past century, socialist economy was backward and stagnated. A free market economy has proved to be efficient and capitalist private section has created majority of the wealth for the society. I see China has completely indulged himself into the capitalist economy, entering international trade, wooed the foreign investors with extremely cheap labor, and is having a fantastic economic growth while abundant the social safety net and welfare all together.
However, when we talk about a civilized society, it is not just about efficiency and wealth; mainly is about people. We need to have at least some consideration to the issues of equality, capacity, personal development, their health and education... which a free market would not guarantee. There are always people who fall behind and the unfortunates (the sick, the young, the old, the handicapped…). The fast the social change, the more needs for the safety net.
I don't think there is anything wrong with the idea of socialism. What's wrong is practicing it in the form of totalitarianism. We need to keep the socialist idea alive, keep transforming ourselves, finding a common ground between market economy and humanity. That’s what I believe the socialist society with Chinese characters to be. But I still yet to see any real effort from the Chinese government.
I just heard that the government is going to increase agriculture taxes. That's just great. Take more out of the poor...

[ Last edited by holidays at 2005-12-30 02:17 PM ]

2005-12-30 01:09 PM

#13

caringhk (O Sweetie&Me go laojia. ..)
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Reply #13 holidays's post

I think you have good points!!!

One is a developed country for many years and one just developed as juts joined WTO. There is a big difference!!!

Quote
"I just heard that the government is going to increase agriculture taxes."

For yr info, China just scrapped that tax 4 yrs ahead of schedule!!!
Great, is n't it!

2005-12-30 04:22 PM

#14

chinadaily (chinadaily)
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where did this member get his info?

Holidays:

you just heard that the (China) government is going to increase agriculture taxes. That's just great. Take more out of the poor...

I wonder where did you got your info? In addition to the abolishing of 2600-year-old agri tax from January 1, 2006, the government is also to give direct subsidies (cash) to farmers who grow rice, wheat and others.

And, the central government is planning to investment 200 billion yuan to improve the infrastructure, housing, water supply, road pavements, etc , in the countryside.

And, a pension system, medicare system is being worked out ...

2005-12-30 04:57 PM

#15

holidays (holidays)
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Chinadaily

Thanks for the information! My bad, I read Caringhk's post wrong.
But except the misunderstanding of that news, I don't think I have misunderstood the situation in China.
I dare not say I am a die hard socialist. I just think we cannot just turn off our idelology once we see some green. I heard that China is going to modify the Maxism communism theory which has been taught in school to adjust the current social changes. I am VERY intrested to see what kind of changes will be made.
But that should be another topic in another forum.

2005-12-30 10:17 PM

#16

chinadaily (chinadaily)
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about ideology

Certainly, the pre-1978 communist ideology had been proved not fitting into China's conditions, and could be very destructive when put into actual implementation.

nearly all senior citizes knows now that in late 1950s and early 1960s, many in China's countryside starved to death amid the Great Leap Forward movement. And, it is outrageous and against humanity that the knowledged, the teachers, the scholars, were sent  to labor camps, and students were agitated to ferrot out "capitalists" and "struggled them on the streets" every day during the cultural revolution years.

It was the pragmatic Deng Xiaoping who trumpeted "Let some become rich first", and all of a sudden, China was put into a different but dynamic route.

Protection of private ownership, written into China Constitution, has unleashed the flood gate for striking for wealth, and inspired many to "jump to the sea" to seek their fortune. As a result, China's economy has been growing by double digits annually in actual terms since 1978.

Now, the income disparity becomes one of the hottest issues at home and from abroad.  The central government has made its mind to address it.  But, egalitarism is gone, and should be gone forever.

So, are you afraid of communism? yes, I would say.  Capitalism? no.  we could make good use of the developed countries' experiences.

NOW AS THE CLOCK TICKS TO THE END OF A YEAR, i wish all CD online members good health and prosperity in 2006.

Happy New Year, all forumites.

[ Last edited by chinadaily at 2005-12-31 04:45 PM ]

2005-12-31 04:40 PM

#17

iluv2fish (iluv2fish)
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"So, are you afraid of communism? yes"

Is it fair to say that China might change their name of their government?

As China continues to grow in stature throughout the world, would it make sense to China to come up with a new name for their government if they no longer are Communist?

2006-1-1 04:16 PM

#18

iluv2fish (iluv2fish)
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"attempts to belittle China"

Canchin, something is very wrong with you. You say you travel around the world and come
America and give a report that we do not take care of our homeless.
You know we have safety nets here in the states but you choose to not talk about them but
talk of some homeless you seen but know nothing of their history.
Did you talk to them and get their story? Did you at least try and feed them? Did pray tell,
give some of the homeless children some money?
I can honestly say I have never saw or met a homeless child in the USA. I have seen some
on TV that the family came across bad luck and now they live in their car. They don't have to
but they did choose to. They are not allowed to keep their children in a car even if they want
to. The children would be taken care of by the state until the parents got back on their feet.

What is wrong about you Canchin is that you choose not to help your fellow Chinese. You
have such hateful anger that you are blind. You offer nothing to them. By talking of issues
both in China and America openly and honestly you will see cure.

Canchin...you sound like a taker.

2006-1-1 04:32 PM

#19

chinadaily (chinadaily)
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Is it fair to say that China might change their name of their government?

Mr Fish asked me: " Is it fair to say that China might change their name of their government?"

My answer:  Ever since 1978, China has deviated from Communism. It has adopted a mixture of capitalism and socialism.

I even quarrelled once with a Beijing-based foreign news agency correspondent, who always add that terrible, and in a sense even evil, label before China, in their China stories filed worldwide: Communist China!  I said to his face: China is no longer a communist country, though the ruling party has remained to be called that way.

Here i would say:  do not believe the news stories you read  about China filed by Reuters, AFP and the Associated Press, because the word "communist" before "China" is intentionally put there, not reflecting the facts, and is misleading the world about your understanding of today's China.

Today's China is progressing in all fields. Do you believe China could achieve an annual 10% GDP growth while guided by the old idoelogy of communism? No way!  China's leaders and the majority of the people here know what is democracy, what is voting,  what system is best serving China, and how Germany, Australia, Canada, Japan, the United States, etc, ever got to their prosperity, and We are walking to you.

[ Last edited by chinadaily at 2006-1-1 05:03 PM ]

2006-1-1 04:52 PM

#20

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