Author: greendragon

Spreading the teaching of history to the GOOD PEOPLE! [Copy link] 中文

Rank: 8Rank: 8

Post time 2009-4-7 08:21:09 |Display all floors
Originally posted by bern2009 at 2009-4-7 00:24
Jesus died by cult elders. I doubt it was only for preserving some benefits. It was for preserving of what they believed it was the truth.
And - He died for the Romans' (in this case Pilatus') ...


Bern,

Scientifically, Jesus is an imagined figure. There is not a historical person called Jesus.

Roman Empire was overthrown by Christians and the Dark Age started.  I would love to hear how you comment that the Pope was overthrown by European people, just like the Roman Empire.

How do you explain the two Opium Wars and the forceful imposition of Christianity onto China?

Use magic tools Report

Rank: 8Rank: 8

Post time 2009-4-7 11:33:21 |Display all floors

Reply #6 bern2009's post

Religion sometimes are the "instrument of government".


Green DRagon
Game Master

Use magic tools Report

Rank: 6Rank: 6

Post time 2009-4-8 04:18:59 |Display all floors
Originally posted by timbatu at 2009-4-7 08:16


Bern,
Religion is not human nature. Christianity spreads through childhood indoctrination.

Think about how your religious parents bring you up. If religion is human na ...

Nobody knows how much religion is part of human nature or not, so you can't know either. Fact is that some regimes tried to thrash belief out of people's minds but failed.

Use magic tools Report

Rank: 6Rank: 6

Post time 2009-4-8 04:34:48 |Display all floors
Originally posted by timbatu at 2009-4-7 08:21
Scientifically, Jesus is an imagined figure. There is not a historical person called Jesus.

Once again: Nobody knows for sure, but you believe to know.

Originally posted by timbatu at 2009-4-7 08:21
Roman Empire was overthrown by Christians and the Dark Age started.  

The fall of the Roman Empire was maybe accelerated by Christianity, but this is even not sure. The main reasons, however, were located elsewhere.

Originally posted by timbatu at 2009-4-7 08:21
I would love to hear how you comment that the Pope was overthrown by European people, just like the Roman Empire.

The Pope still exists, in case you haven't realised this. So I don't know what you mean by "overthrown". Maybe you mean, he lost power due to reformation or the movement of enlightment. This might be. But what do you expect me to say to this?

Originally posted by timbatu at 2009-4-7 08:21
How do you explain the two Opium Wars and the forceful imposition of Christianity onto China?  

The opium wars? They were initiated due to greed. I strongly oppose the Opium Wars, but they were not directly related to Christianity. If somebody who calls himself Christian is doing a bad deed, this does not mean that this deed is backed by Christianity. Same as when Muslims are killing thousands of innocent people, this does not mean that Islam recommends doing so. Or when communists are letting millions of people die in gulags, this does not mean that communism generally requires its supporters to do so.
Moreover, we have to state that the Opium Wars were even not justified by any Christian-sounding arguments.

Forceful imposition.... I don't know to what extent there was any "forceful imposition". I definitely oppose any forceful impositions, done by whoever  and in the name of whatever. Please note this and don't claim the opposite later on. So if Christianity was forced upon the Chinese, I strongly disagree to this. But I don't know how often this was really the case.

Use magic tools Report

Rank: 6Rank: 6

Post time 2009-4-8 04:37:08 |Display all floors
Originally posted by greendragon at 2009-4-6 12:31
...arising from East (China) and West (British) experience is...

"Bureacrats, Judiciary, Army, Police and autonomous Domestic Local Governments are the key elements of strong empires, or na ...

I don't get you here. Are you speaking in favor of or against federalism?

Use magic tools Report

Rank: 4

Post time 2009-4-8 11:45:13 |Display all floors
Originally posted by seneca at 2009-4-8 09:26
Bern2009, the British did NOT impose 'Christianity' on any Chinese, full stop.



Well, let's be honest here. I'm obviously not trying to defend Timbatu, no doubt the biggest moron on CD, but the fact is that there is a lot of missionary work going on in China as we speak. Anyway who has spent more than 2 weeks here and tries to deny this is simply lying. There is a huge interest among some Christian denominations to convert as many Chinese as possible, and these denominations are investing plenty of money and recourses into this (and they do expect returns on these investments). These modern missionaries are obviously not violent or anything, but nobody can deny that they are often (as a rule in fact) employing highly unethical methods for their shady agendas.

So, I guess it's all about how do we chose to define "impose" here... Does it have to entail violence, or is deception enough?

:)

Use magic tools Report

Rank: 8Rank: 8

Post time 2009-4-8 12:43:36 |Display all floors

Reply #13 bern2009's post

Federalism as unifying force, and to keep the peace.

Regional Autonomy as a way to pacify region and encourage self help, to keep pace with progress in the entire nation, empire, territory and prevent the ruling clique from dominating, channeling wealth to themselves and their region.


cheerios!


Green DRagon
Game Master

Use magic tools Report

You can't reply post until you log in Log in | register

BACK TO THE TOP
Contact us:Tel: (86)010-84883548, Email: blog@chinadaily.com.cn
Blog announcement:| We reserve the right, and you authorize us, to use content, including words, photos and videos, which you provide to our blog
platform, for non-profit purposes on China Daily media, comprising newspaper, website, iPad and other social media accounts.