Author: greendragon

Strange isn't it - 1830-1860 opium problem... [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2009-2-14 01:20:19 |Display all floors
Originally posted by greendragon at 2009-2-8 12:00 AM
...and 1870-1900 great gold, tin mining rush to Malaya, Australia, New Zealand and California.

and by 1900, opium production in China, mainly in Sichuan/Yunnan greatly exceed imports from India. ...

opium merchants must have financed sun yat sen's mercenary army to defeat the only non-rotten apple at the time -- the hakka general chen.

during the nanking massacre, opium trade was heavy between chiang kai shek, the japs and shanghai mafia of du yu shen.  chiang, as indicated by his good mood by fenby, must be really congradulating himself for thought up such a clever scheme of borrowing the bloody hands of the japs to clean out all the obstacles, such as the troops in nanking and outraged peasants in the yellow river delta, which he flooded by broking the dikes and cause 30 millions to die.

the key event in the opium situation was gu homing's(adviser to governor of canton) letter to queen victoria pleading for civil behavior, but rejected... the rest is history.

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Post time 2009-2-14 03:55:50 |Display all floors
"14: It wasn't the British government that introduced opium to China; have you read no history book in the matter? It was the East India Company that ran factories in Hong Kong from which it sold its dope imported from India. "

Not quite right... opium was used in China before the company got there.  See wikipedia entry on 'opium'.

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Post time 2009-2-16 10:52:33 |Display all floors

Reply #23 joeching's post

Not really interested in those petty information. I  think General Chen was a Teochew Warlord of Liberal/Centrist background and controlled Guangzhou city as a Warlord. (not hakka! ha ha ha)

Anyway, Back to The Opium problem and USA current obsession.

in 1860 China and British Isle GNP was equal.
Britain had 3 billion taels of gold gnp but only 20 million population, compared to China's 450 million people.
This made Britain with a per capita GNP of almost 20x more than China, or Tael 7 vs. Tael 150 (Bpd 150)

Bpd 1supposed to be equal to 1 ounce of gold.
It supposed to be equivalent to more than a lb or silver, or 20 shillings.
and 1 silver ounce equals 12 copper coins.

ie. Bpd 1 = 20 s = 240 d


Population increased in the British Isle and China since 1700's on the back of using PRODUCTIVE FOODSTUFFs, but the labour released from that event was used up in the INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION in the UK but kept unemployment high in CHINA.

so.....China was ready to be addicted to OPIUM.

Lack of progress, unemployment, misery was the reason for the addiction.


Green DRagon
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Post time 2009-2-16 10:58:09 |Display all floors

Lack of change was a problem in China.... caught the trend that started in Europe during the FAMINE YEARs of using potatoes for food.

which in China meant TAPIOCA, etc.
This allowed for population increase, making available labour for the Industrial revolution, the steam engine....

Historian couldn't understand the population increased, i have read many version, none could explain....

The FAMINE made potato, tapioca OR spud acceptable food....and allowed for increase in population......
but such foods are cheap, and in China without the industrial revolution, kept more POOR...

CHINA also needed an industrial revolution, increase in product, financial and services offering....


She was now ready to use OPIUM and get addicted.

Green DRagon
Game Master
"History as it really should be".

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Post time 2009-2-16 11:04:56 |Display all floors

..and why would such a small value of OPIUM import cause trouble...

....well CHINA had paper money.

ie. it also had proto FRACTIONAL BANKING SYSTEM.

In China, MONEY STORE work with SECURITY COURIER to transport expensive materials with ARMED GUARDS.
This include Gold, Silver, PAPER PROMISSIONARY NOTES (or money), salt, exotic herbal medicines.
The MONEY STORE, kept gold, silver and issue PROMISSORY NOTEs for safe trading between the many provinces served by the canals, river network.

This could mean that the 3 billion tael economy, would only need about probably 300 million to 500 million taels to work.


British exporter of Opium only wanted Silver or Gold.

Ah! that's the trouble with METAL STANDARDS....


In fact, OPIUM smoking must be a great economic generator for lack of an INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION.....


Green DRagon
Game Master
"History as it really should be"

[ Last edited by greendragon at 2009-2-16 11:37 AM ]

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Post time 2009-2-16 11:09:41 |Display all floors

If the British Traders could take Chinese promissory notes...

....and invested that in China's real estate, there wouldn't be an OPIUM WAR.


Green DRagon
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"History as it really should be"

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Post time 2009-2-16 11:21:48 |Display all floors

United States had a credit bubble in 1929..... prohibition, urbanization (US had 45% urbanization, highest in the world), growth of the auto industry, industrialization (1929 was peak Amerikan Industrial output, 43.2% of global output), allowed the middle class and rich in making huge profits (like Opium), which created huge bubble in property and bourse markets. USA surpassed the British Isle in GNP during 1900. (with Germany wanting to catch up with the British Empire as well, that cause WAR, as British block resources and markets for Germany)

Debt was almost 250% of GNP. (like now)

how'd the Amerikan REgime solved it,
well, it allowed the asset market to burst.......

but Uncle Sam was lucky that the world then were a LOT MORE NASTY than nowadays.....
Nations were at loggerhead with each other, instability was rife in UK, Europe and their colonies (most of the world)....

THEN THE AMERIKAN REGIME did was today would be MINTING....

It OFFERED To Buy Gold with DOLLAR value at US$35 per ounce in 1934, instead of the normal US$20 per ounce of gold standard.
effective using DOLLAR devaluation to pare down the debt/gnp ratio...
In those deflationary times, with USA having huge global industrial production, meant getting more dollars or products for gold held...
together with instability that exploded into war by 1937.....
and postwar reconstruction from 1945 to 1958......

and by 1958, it had approximately 36,000 Tonnes of the monetary gold bullion....

Green DRagon
Game Master
"History as it really should be"

[ Last edited by greendragon at 2009-2-16 11:26 AM ]

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