Kevin Keqing L I U ...

seneca

...who composed a sort of an essai in the CD paper edition on Thursday, 19 January, 2006, entitled

"Listen, I'm Chinian, not Chinese"

Let me begin my little retort by drawing a helpful parallel between journalism and sports - both of which matter a lot to me.
In SPORTS, we distinguish the PROFESSIONALS from the AMATEURS; the former ones derive a living from performing extraordinary sports feats on a more or less regular basis; it goes without saying that they have to train regularly, which they couldn't do if they held down a normal job.
The cruelty is, however, that once their achievements lag they quickly find themselves on their way out; to recycle a former box champion is a difficult task: they certainly never are mentally fit for a new challenging position as physicians or lawyers!
And AMATEURS are people who do sports as a hobby, and only in their remaining spare time; some achieve as good results as professionals - but there are fewer of those, and the majority of them stays away from professional sports. I used to ride racing bikes before I came to China; whenever I had time I would train, and I achieved respectable feats: 160 to 180 kms in mountainous terrain in just 4 hours - an average speed that put me in the same bracket as those who take part in the Tour de France every year; as a matter of fact I didn't even participate in the far less daunting Giro d"Italia - because I remained, and still remain, an amateur. This word derives from Latin 'AMOR' and means "lover".

In journalism there also is a perceptible trend towards amateur writing; maybe the Internet forces many reputable newspapers to reconsider their hiring practice. Good journalists have good names - Edgar Snow comes to mind, and a host of others. Note that Edgar Snow also was an "amateur" when he was covering China!
But modern "amateur journalists" call themselves "freelancers", and we have all the right and reasons to be circumspect when we come across the mention "Freelance writer" next to the name of an author!

This definitely is the case with Mr Liu Keqing!

He set out to do his job in near-professional fashion by checking some dictionaries to support his bias that the suffix 'ese' as in the cases of Nepalese, Congolese, Taiwanese, Chinese, etc., is DEROGATORY.

Two dictionaries provided him with some proof; unfortunately Mr Liu chose to misinterpret his findings!
If he had done a more thorough job he would have noticed that the ending 'ese' CAN, but DOES NOT HAVE TO BE, "disapproving" or "derogatory".
It is derogatory in the cases of nouns and adjectives such as "officialese" or "sociologuese"; we can easily find more examples if we want to. Why is that so easy?
It is easy because these words are relatively recent coinages that were fashioned precisely with the intention of putting down those who "speak officialese" or "sociologuese". Adjectives and nouns like "Japanese" or "Chinese"  are not derogatory, full stop! The decent majority of English vocabulary proves my point!

Famous novelist George  Orwell created another pejorative noun: Newspeak! Read his novels "Animal Farm" or "1984", and you will understand why such a term must be negatively-charged - it's not the word that's negative, it is the concept behind that is covered by the word that deserves a negative notation! There are no positive connotations to "newspeak" because we all expect it to be the tool of manipulative propagandists and tyrants!

But Mr Liu's article is also full of errors and erroneous methods in his approach to the matter at hand!

He proposes that the adjective derived from 'China" henceforth be "Chinian". How ludicrous! Does he have any notion of how this word is surely going to have adverse effects on native speakers of other languages such as Spanish, French, Italian? It would sound deceptively similar to "simian", for example!

Besides that, his suggestion is miles away from a respectable alternative! Nay, it's simply wrong!

The root of the name "China" is 'Qin", and this gave rise to 'China" because of some Italian juggling with the word. In Italian you have to use a final vowel to end words and names - Mario (male) Maria (female). English 'Mark' is Italian 'Marco" - it sounds more musical and Italiano IS more musical than any anguage I know!

The suffix 'ese' is based on a Latin root that has become very productive and popular in English. English adopted Latin words and morphemes through the French who invaded Britain and added their own linguistic materials to the formerly purely Germanic language of the British tribes! If a Germanic suffix were to be used, the word 'CHinese' might become nearly unpronouncable: Chiner? Chinaer?

What about using 'ish since 'ish' also is an English common ending - witness Finnish, Frankish, Lettish? OK, how would you like 'Chinish'? Ridiculous - if you ask me! Besides, should it be "Chinnish' or 'Chinish'?

OK, if it was 'Chinnish', we would have to reinvent the Pekinese dogs as 'Pekish', I guess! Besides, 'Chinnish' will always remind us that we must wag our chins when speaking Mandarin...

I guess, a lot of options are open now, each equally laughable...
Trouble is that other nationalities that have their names modified to suit Mr Liu's idiosyncratic thinking might be up in arms:

The Japanese in future Japnish? And what's the plural anyway? Japnishes???

The Koreans as "Koreaners"?

Or shall we adopt the 'i' suffix as in Saudis, Pakis (slightly derogatory at least in Britain but not necesssarily elsehwere!), Omanis and Iraqis?
So it would be the 'Chinis"? How do you like that? NOr do I!

Mr Liu really is in an intellectual  cul-de-sac!
He might say 'istan' is a demeaning ending - think of Afghanistan, Pakistan, Tadjikistan, Turkmenistan, Kyrgizstan - talk of all these "istans"! BUt this ending is based on old Farsi and has been adopted by major languages in Central Asia; the Western world simply adopted their own monikers! What gives the phrase "all those 'istans..." a slightly negative touch is not the ending per se but the fact that all these countries are notorious for being violent, underdeveloped, machismo-centred societies!

Do HUNGARIANS consider themselves ill-named by imperialist German, French or English-speaking neighbours and fellow-Europeans? Does anyone consider the name 'Hungarian" as meaning "Hungry Aryans"?

Are GERMANS not a human evolutionary step after germs???

If you are using the name 'Turk', are you talking "cold turkey'?  

Finally, Mr Liu's essai is riddled with demonstrably wrong allegations.

Among many things, he has forgotten that the 'ese' suffix has never been arbitrarily used to classify countries as "friends" or "foes". Even European countries have found themselves being given adjectives and nouns that end in 'ese': Malta is an island inhabited by MaltESE! Who dares look down on Maltese? Not a single European that I know of!

His claim that the Portuguese were "hated" by other Europeans is absolute nonsense!

As is his claim that the ancient Chinese brought their name to Europe; the Chinese have been known to Europeans for a few centuries, not for the two millenia or more that Mr Liu would have us believe! In Marco Polo's book there is no name "China" but "Cathay", which is based on the Mongolian spoken at that time at the courts of East Asia!  The noun 'china' - with a lower-case 'c'! - is a reverent use of the name to call attention to the origin of luxury ceramic vessels that were en vogue in Eruope of the early modern epoch; it wasn't the Chinese that brought them to the attention of the world but nomadic and seminomadic peoples that ensured the transport by camel of these goods from Chang'an to Tehran and the Mediterranean. The moniker 'china' was created much later!

And Egypt has a name bequeathed it by the Greeks; in Arabic, the country is called 'Al-Misr". We have certainly no aversion for Egyptians because we regard them as among the parents of European civilisation!
Even the names 'Asia' and 'Africa' are borrowed from Latin! That's why we can't change 'Asians' into 'Asics" or 'Africans' into 'Afralians'.
There is hope though: Ghana is peopled by Ghanaians; Hawaii is peopled by Hawaiians... Shall we from now on refer to natives and residents in Hainan as "Hainanians"? Qinghaiians?

And if Mr Liu thinks it wrong that from an European perspective, there is a 'Near East', a 'Middle East' and a 'Far East', maybe he would have us accept that China is 'in the West' - which is true if you follow the parallels 30 to 60 in the northern hemisphere in an easterly direction; suddenly Europe is in the east of CHina...

Which brings me to my conclusion: what is the Chinese name 'Zhongguo' based on if not a downright narcisstic view of China by its own rulers? Is China the "centre of the world'?

I don't think so!

[ Last edited by seneca at 2006-1-20 11:42 AM ]

asmanthink

"Listen, I'm Chinian, not Chinese"
----------------------------

Who is this man? Sounds very comical.

beaver666

The following is my original article. The four blue-colored paragraphs had been omitted by the editor when the article was published. They were justified to do so for space reasons, etc.

My article simply attempts to remind the readers of the legacy of ancient Europeans and work to build a united world where racism is zero tolerated and where all peoples are equal, with peace and love.

Every phenomenon has reasons behind. My job, and probably yours, is to find  them out, and, if problems exist, try to solve them -- peacefully and rationally.

Any comment is welcome. Let us agree to disagree. But let's focus on the issues that the article addresses and please do not go beyond it -- for example, the article did not touch upon "-istan" (as in "Pakistan") or "-ish" (as in "British" or "Spanish"), or in other words, did not express if they are positive or negative -- and therefore, kindly raise no irrelevant issue.

Indeed, "Zhongguo" might have meant the "center of the world", too, by the ancient rulers of China, which, if so, is not correct as we see today, and which was their fault. But again, kindly do not go beyond, but limit our time and energy on, the "-ese" and "-an" thing. Isn't that a more constructive approach?


                                                      Hey, listen. I am Chinian. I am not Chinese.
                                                                          By Kevin Keqing Liu

Group I: American, Australian, Austrian, Canadian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Russian...

Group II: Burmese, Chinese, Congolese, Japanese, Nepalese, Portuguese, Sudanese, Vietnamese, ...

In the U.S. State of Ohio, what do the local residents name themselves? Ohioese? Wrong. Ohioan. In Toronto, Canada, the people there call them – yes, you guessed it – Torontonian. Never Torontonese.

Not enough to make you feel superior should you fall into Group I, or inferior if you unfortunately happen to be in Group II? Let's look at the Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English, 1978, for definition of "-ese": suffix, 1. (the people or language) belonging to (a country); 2. (usually derogatory) literature written in the (stated) style. Examples: Johnsonese; Journalese.

Or MSN Encarta Dictionary online: … 3. The style of language of a particular group (disapproving). Example: officialese. [Via Old French –eis; Italian –ese]

Even those two dictionaries published in the modern times when racism is illegal reveals that, clearly, "-ese" here relates to derogation and shows a low opinion of the called people, to say nothing of centuries ago when the ancient Europeans saw themselves as the center of the world, and called the countries near the eastern Mediterranean sea "Near East"; the Asian countries west of India "Middle East"; the Asian countries east of India "Far East"; and North America the "New World".

In the ancient times, China's economy was comparatively developed and it made initial contact with Europe through merchandise trading such as porcelain or china – hence the country name of China – via the Silk Road. While excited about the unique goods, the arrogant old Europeans felt uneasy with this totally different people from remote East having strange physical appearances and inferior cultures in the former's eyes, and laughed at the latter's difficult languages, ugly attire, and dire foods... and called them in a negative attitude. Burma, Japan, Nepal and Vietnam, ... resemble China in human physical appearance and culture, and were also victimized.

If you are not fully convinced that consequences of cultural conflicts could be that destructive in the old days, let me cite a more recent case, which, ironically, may have simultaneously produced an unexpected side effect – a sense of humor: in the early 1960s, a country in Latin America raided China's Embassy, and seized the acupuncture needles as a "spy tool"!

Why, then, the survival of many Africans such as Egyptian and Tunisian, and Central and South Americans e.g. Jamaican and Brazilian, as well as some Asians like Korean, Malaysian and Indian?

My research indicates that, firstly, when Europeans made initial contact with Koreans and Malaysians, ...hundreds of years later than with Chinese, Europe was more civilized and less racist; secondly, by now, Europeans were getting used to the Asian physical appearance and culture and began to accept them; and finally, Europeans happened to like the way the Korean or Malaysian interacted with Europeans, when both made initial contact.

The inferences can be applied to the Africans whose names end with an "-an".

The English-speaking founding fathers of Singapore were well aware of the subtle signification behind the "-ese" and "-an" thing, and opted for Singaporean when the nation became independent in 1965.

India has a different story. The Indians stemmed from Europe. Europeans saw Indians as a relative. You won't use harsh description towards your relatives, will you?

The same is true of Central and South Americans, who are cousins of North American Mexican.

You may ask: What about the Portuguese, also a European? Well, a few hundred years back, Portugal was a powerful nation warring fiercely against other major European countries for resources in overseas colonies, and was victimized by being hated and looked down upon by their European rivals.

In the 21st century, the world has evolved into an era when racial discrimination is zero tolerated. It's time the names in Group II were abolished.

As far back as in 1939, Thailand threw away "Siamese" for the name of its people derived from the country's old name "Siam", and carried a new one, Thai. And in the 1960s, Martin Luther King led the American black people in nationwide campaigns for equal rights and one achievement was the abolished use of the offensive "Negro".

Can't we in China do something too, my dear folks?

To liven up the friendly atmosphere, you may wish to make a joke at a United Nations informal, hilarious get-together: "Ladies and gentlemen, today is a big day for us Americese, Australianese, Austrianese, Canadanese, Germanese, Italinese, Norweginese, Russianese... to re-join Burmian, Chinian, Congolian, Japanian, Nepalian, Portugalian, Sudanian, Vietnamian, ..."

[ Last edited by beaver666 at 2006-1-22 09:54 PM ]

seneca

Originally posted by asmanthink at 2006-1-20 17:11
"Listen, I'm Chinian, not Chinese"
----------------------------

Who is this man? Sounds very comical.

I thought so too! He makes a lot of nonsensical allegations apart from those I have dealt with!
Do a Google search! To my surprise, yesterday's article could already be downloaded from Google! IT's a Xinhua piece!
I am not sure if all Xinhua writers are as amateurish as Mr Liu!

seneca

Mr Liu, have you read my opinion? Why do you think posting yours will set me right? I was trying to show up the ridiculousness of your claims! You are burdened by zero understanding of how modern English develops!

We don't need foreigners like you telling us how to perform surgery on our language!

To say these names evoke racial prejudices is a tall order! How much were you paid for posting your nonsense?

wowzers

I don't buy the argument that Chinese is a derogatory term.
The dictionary definitions you cited refer to different meanings of the term.
As you know English words can have many different meanings.(and connotations)
I can assure you as a native English speaker if someone wanted to refer to the people from China in a derogatory manner they would choose another term.(and never "Chinese") In fact I don't think you can find anyone who thinks the term is derogatory.

Mr. Lui if you want me to refer to you as Chinian I will.
I have no problem with new words or meanings.
I understand that some people can find certain words offensive for reasons I have not considered.
Now if you can convince the majority of Chinese(or any ese) people to want to be called Chinian I will adopt the term.
Right now no one would know what I am talking about.
Language after all is about communication and I have enough problems here as it is.:)

asmanthink

After reading his article, I think he has a point.

If it was slightly derogative, it has long ago ceased to be so after its adoption by the people of the middle kingdom.
To change to the use of "Chinian", would make the case more ludicrous.

wchao37

That was a comical comment from a wisecrack.  

But there are elements of truth in his apparent lunacy.