Author: Grace222

How a debate 40 years ago paves way for China's modernization? [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2018-5-14 19:37:18 |Display all floors
Jaaja Post time: 2018-5-14 02:07
That's what I would lke to know - knowing the difference of this (or similar) article from the s ...

Your statements are ignorant beyond all belief.
The policies of the CPC brought China from a war torn backwater to the second biggest economy in the world.
You constantly speculate "what if" China had come under western control and imply that everything
would be puppy dogs and roses if China had become just another western puppet.
If you knew anything about Chinese history you'd know that the Great Leap Forward financed the
acquisition of technology from the then USSR necessary to obtain nuclear deterrence. The USSR
didn't just hand the technology to China. They were at odds much of the time during that period
and Russia had no reason to simply give China the technology.
Ignorant westerner who learned only what was taught in western schools think of only backyard
iron smelters when they hear of the Great Leap Forward. China shipped a lot of pork and other
food stuffs to the USSR to finance the creation of their own nuclear bomb.

And where was Mao quoted as calling the Great Leap Forward a failure and a loss to the country?
In western history books I suppose. Only fools believe everything they read.

Finally, why should China care what the rest of the world thinks about?
It's a well know fact that the west has been on genocide campaign after genocide campaign for
the past 500 years while stealing the land and subjugating the people in three continents.
Who would trust or care about such a vicious and immoral lot?
This is why China worked so hard to obtain nuclear deterrence. The Russians didn't just hand it to them as you were lead to believe in western schools.
If capitalism promotes innovation and creativity then why aren't scientists and artists the richest people in a capitalist nation?

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Post time 2018-5-14 21:55:31 |Display all floors
robert237 Post time: 2018-5-14 17:10
The article worked on foreign audiences didn't it.
The truth is Mao paved the way to China becomin ...

About ‘The Cultural Revolution was a success.’:
Yes, chinese should re-think about the C-R which has left deep foot-print on our history-record. We ought to draw reasonable and fair judgement for special period, during which we had lost a lot if considering on economy but we have won too much valuable things on politics! Most of Chinese have become half of politician who are always sensitive to state affairs!--------------That is why Chinese have firmly been holding the communist banner for so long!
The culture revolution is the unique civil war in the world with least life-sacrifice as price!  Any war would go with banknote-burning. It is lucky for Chinese since it has brought us stability and prosperity in long run! ------------Future would prove this!

For more, please check my past thread 《the culture revolution and its influence》
We learn language to use it as smart tool for the thinking labor work on our own business!

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Post time 2018-5-14 22:37:03 |Display all floors
This post was edited by Jaaja at 2018-5-14 22:41
robert237 Post time: 2018-5-14 19:37
Your statements are ignorant beyond all belief.
The policies of the CPC brought China from a war t ...
You constantly speculate "what if" China had come under western control and imply that everything would be puppy dogs and roses if China had become just another western puppet

Don't put your words in my mouth.

It is you who have maintained that if China had made other choices, it would have automatically ended up as western puppet.

My speculation is that China would not have ended up as western puppet, even if it had made other choices.

The USSR didn't just hand the technology to China.

That's true. In exchange China sent uranium to Soviet Union. Maybe pork too as you mentioned - that I don't know.

where was Mao quoted as calling the Great Leap Forward a failure and a loss to the country? In western history books I suppose. Only fools believe everything they read.

Great leap forward took place from 1958 to 1962. It's idea was not to build nuclear weapons, but to complete (or at least fast-track most of the way) the communist dream by improving production and catching up with capitalist countries (UK and USA specifically) in mere 15 years. After 4 years of trying, the attempt was found futile and stopped.

Quotes for self-criticism toward that period from Chinese government (and from Mao specifically) are numerous, but they all refer to "Seven Thousand Cadres Conference" which took place in early 1962.

In that meeting Mao held a speech, in which he acknowledged that in his current opinion it will take at least 100 years to catch up with the capitalist countries, rather than 15 that was the goal of "great leap forward" (hence the name).

He also acknowledged reasons for that - China had too big population and way too low starting level andd backawrd economy for such leap to work. This is de-facto admitting that the great leap forward had landed short, or failed.

He also went on to acknowledge personal responsibility of the mistakes that the Central Committee had made.

I don't read Chinese, so I cannot direct you to official Chinese language sources of that meeting.  Feel free to look up yourself, and tell us your findings.

As a trustworthy English language source from China, full translated transcription of Mao's speech in the "Seven Thousand Cadres Conference" was was published in Peking Review (a Chinese national newspaper in English language) in 1978, number 27, date July 7.  You can find that issue in scanned format in internet, if you cannot find it in a library in Guilin.

The speech itself was made public to Chinese and foreign audiences earlier that year, 16 years after it took place.

I'll finish this comment with a quote from that speech by Mao:

"There should be full democracy both inside and outside the Party, that is, democratic centralism shouid be practised in earnest in both spheres. Problems should be brought out into the open frankly and the masses allowed to speak out, speak out even if we are going to be abused".

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Post time 2018-5-14 23:11:24 |Display all floors
Jaaja Post time: 2018-5-14 06:37
Don't put your words in my mouth.

It is you who have maintained that if China had made other choi ...

You are being extremely naive here. Do you think China just ordered a nuclear bomb from the USSR
and waited for delivery on the doorstep of the Great Hall of the People?
China had to build their own bomb and it took years. The products from the collective farms were
used as payment for the technology that took years to assemble and perfect.

Construction of uranium-enrichment plants in Baotou and Lanzhou began in 1958, and a plutonium facility in Jiuquan and the Lop Nur nuclear test site by 1960. The Soviet Union provided assistance in the early Chinese program by sending advisers to help in the facilities devoted to fissile material production.

You don't really think the USSR provided tools and advise for free do you?
The Great Leap Forward provided the payments to the USSR for their help in the form of food.
The USSR not only had itself to feed but also the Soviet bloc nations in eastern Europe.

And western history always puts words into the mouth of Mao.
You can pull words out of context from any great leader and twist them around to suit your agenda.
Weren't you musing earlier in this thread about whether the western version of Chinese history and
the real Chinese history matched? Of course they don't. The western version is always twisted to
suit the agenda of western concerns.

You are naive indeed. But that's they kind that go far in the western educational system.
If capitalism promotes innovation and creativity then why aren't scientists and artists the richest people in a capitalist nation?

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Post time 2018-5-15 09:14:27 |Display all floors
SEARU Post time: 2018-5-14 21:55
About ‘The Cultural Revolution was a success.’:
Yes, chinese should re-think about the C-R whic ...



When will you sto making the worst typos deliberately, SEARU?

Yes, chinese should re-think about the C-R


Any noun that derives from a place name or the name of a people must be CAPITALISED. Even if you are a Communist, you must walk the Capital royal way!

The rest of your post beggars no comment. It makes me speechless.

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Post time 2018-5-15 09:18:42 |Display all floors
robert237 Post time: 2018-5-14 17:10
The article worked on foreign audiences didn't it.
The truth is Mao paved the way to China becomin ...



And you believe the humbug you have trotted out? You are a real propagandist, albeit one who has an ulterior ambition that is at variance with that of your bosses.

If Mao really wanted to get rid of foreign saboteurs, why did he invade free Tibet and thus expose his imperialist army to a local people's resistance?

And why did Mr Mao give in to Mr Nixon's charm offensive in 1972?

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Post time 2018-5-15 09:25:12 |Display all floors
robert237 Post time: 2018-5-14 19:29
You are ignorant beyond all belief.
The policies of the CPC brought China from a war torn backwate ...


You are ignorant beyond all belief.
The policies of the CPC brought China from a war torn backwater to the second biggest econ


And you are what, Bobby? A twister? A plumber that connects the sewage drain to the drinking water pipe? You got everything misconnected!

When Mao unleashed the Terror euphemistically called "Cultural Revolution", he had no plan to bring China's economy to its current place in the global ranking list. He was not concerned with economics. That is why his people got butchered or starved to death or committed suicide. There was no glimmer of hope for a reward, no hope to ever eat in an airconditioned McDonald's or own their own apartment. The people were living an subsistence existence.

Mao only hoped to be the new emperor, no less and nothing else. The atom bomb was a means to this purpose. The sacrifices were human and did not tweak Mao's tear ducts.

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