Author: pnp

China Has Turned The Theory of Communism Into A Practical Success Story!   [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2018-6-13 11:32:14 |Display all floors
sfphoto Post time: 2018-6-13 03:13
Two decades later, the rise of anti-globalist populist movements in the West — Trumpism, BREXIT, ...
, etc. — proves his views to be quite prescient.


Let me address a few details:

Without a successful Russian counter-revolution against the Soviet Union, the West could not have started the process of globalization.


Sure would have. Western companies didn't start outsourcing production to either Soviet Union or Russia, nor did western outsourcing of production to China, India or Bangladesh depend on Soviet permission. Chinese woild be last to admit that they'd have required permission from Moscow.

modern epoch is not only post-communist, it is also post-democrati [...] Democracy requires pluralism and pluralism implies an existence of at least two more or less equal


Zinoviev grew up during Cold War, and his understanding of democracy was limited to it being the opposite power to Soviet communist rule. He failed to understand that this is not what democracy should be about, and declared that when the war is over, democracy has no meaning.

He was guilty of what many Chinese are guilty of today - observing what good or bad happens around them or in the world, and attributing those changes to wrong reasons. Like certain Chinese leaders, he too became apparently senile toward the end.

Democracy requires pluralism only within the system that practises democracy. It is not a weapon to be used against external entities. What democracy creates, on the other hand, can be used for multitude of purposes - just like creations of other kind of systems.

European integration unfolding in front of our very eyes is also leading to the disappearance of pluralism within this new conglomerate in favor of supranational power.


There are those who agree with this development and those who disagree with it. For example in UK, the country as whole voted for Brexit, but majority of London did not, nor did Scotland.

The situation in UK is not much different from the pluralism that Zinoviev noted during Cold War. Yes, perhaps the fight against Soviet communism did create additional prosperity in the west, but all the while there was a risk of a global nuclear apocalypse.

Many people in UK are in the same situation - they hope that Brexit will improve their lives, but it may just as well tear the kingdom apart.

Rebellion against banks is impossible.


What I see with cryptocurrencies for example, is certainly an attempt to do just that. Banning of such attempts does not seem to be limited in western democracies.

Zinoviev was apparently ignorant of the role that technological development will have in all that he spoke of. Social media, generally freedom of expression (or lack of it) in internet age.

If he had lived another 50 years, he may well have ended up re-emigrating back to west.

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Post time 2018-6-13 13:46:54 |Display all floors
Jaaja Post time: 2018-6-13 11:32
Let me address a few details:

Sure would have. Western companies didn't start outsourcing production to either Soviet Union or Russia, nor did western outsourcing of production to China, India or Bangladesh depend on Soviet permission. Chinese woild be last to admit that they'd have required permission from Moscow.


I think what Zinoviev meant by “globalization” is the expansion of the EU to include former Soviet Republics. Of course, “outsourcing” is a part of “globalization” which became institutionalized via supranational entities such as the EU, NAFTA, etc.

Zinoviev grew up during Cold War, and his understanding of democracy was limited to it being the opposite power to Soviet communist rule. He failed to understand that this is not what democracy should be about, and declared that when the war is over, democracy has no meaning.

Democracy requires pluralism only within the system that practises democracy. It is not a weapon to be used against external entities. What democracy creates, on the other hand, can be used for multitude of purposes - just like creations of other kind of systems.


I think you misread Zinoviev on his attempt to frame Western “democracy” as the politics of ideologies during the Cold War vs the identity politics or cultural wars of the post-Cold War era. He is quite prescient in describing the collapse of the Western Left and its degeneration into the politically correct pseudo-Left today.

There are those who agree with this development and those who disagree with it. For example in UK, the country as whole voted for Brexit, but majority of London did not, nor did Scotland.

The situation in UK is not much different from the pluralism that Zinoviev noted during Cold War. Yes, perhaps the fight against Soviet communism did create additional prosperity in the west, but all the while there was a risk of a global nuclear apocalypse.

Many people in UK are in the same situation - they hope that Brexit will improve their lives, but it may just as well tear the kingdom apart.


What he’s saying here is that during the Cold War, Western Capitalists had to make concession to Western Socialists as a way to contain Soviet Communism. But the Fall of the Soviet Union facilitated the demise of Western Socialism which gave Western Capitalists free reign to loot the national wealth of Western countries. That’s what he meant when he said that the end of communism signified the end of democracy in the West.

If he had lived another 50 years, he may well have ended up re-emigrating back to west.


I think if he were alive today, he would be saying to Putin: “Look at Trump! Look at BREXIT! See I told you so!”

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