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Post time 2017-11-29 06:47:00 |Display all floors
CuriousGeorge Post time: 2017-11-29 06:27
You got that right!

Oh Gorgeous

you sure post nonsense in threads reserved for no-nonsense topics.

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Post time 2017-11-29 16:00:57 |Display all floors
TheHermit Post time: 2017-11-27 23:41
There is no proof that the world we perceive is not an illusion. Moreover, each one of us perceive ...

My reply still did not get through. What I wanted to say is that what you mentioned reminds me of Zhuangzi.

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Post time 2017-11-30 15:26:23 |Display all floors
huaqiao Post time: 2017-11-29 16:00
My reply still did not get through. What I wanted to say is that what you mentioned reminds me of  ...

Very much so.
Zhuangzi's "butterfly dream" succinctly illustrates the illusion of reality. The theory goes back to early fifth century BC and the ontological assertions of Parmenides. Some credit Parmenides as the father of logical deduction. Most probably a student of the Pythagorean school  of thought, which preceded his teachings.
The metaphysical theories of Pythagoras have been lost in antiquity, much like most of the writings of Parmenides.
The world needs more idiots like me, all the others think they are clever.

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Post time 2017-12-1 15:31:47 |Display all floors
TheHermit Post time: 2017-11-30 15:26
Very much so.
Zhuangzi's "butterfly dream" succinctly illustrates the illusion of reali ...

I don't think Zhuangzi's philosophy was influenced by Parmenides because of different location and travelling was not so convenient then. Another thing is Zhuangzi is not specific about what consists of reality whereas Parmenides thinks that what exists, exists; and nothing can come out of nothing (in my own summary).

What strikes me is that during about the same period (give or take a century plus), different places in the world see the birthplace of some of the major religions of today. For example, Buddhism in India, Jewish religion in Israel, Taoism and Confucianism in China, and the Greek philosophies which influenced western thinking. It is like about that period, a kind of revelation happened to the major civilizations. Another thought that comes to mind is whether these revelations get diluted/watered down through the years up till today. Were the teachings/revelations being carefully preserved?

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Post time 2017-12-2 08:44:47 |Display all floors
huaqiao Post time: 2017-12-1 15:31
I don't think Zhuangzi's philosophy was influenced by Parmenides because of different location and ...

You are right..... ideas seem to spring up unexpectedly in different places and different times, totally independently, and seemingly without connection.
Isn't that part of the illusion?
Parmenides was referring to the illusion of time and therefore space. He did not accept past, present, future, but one permanent now. Without time/space no change is possible.
The world needs more idiots like me, all the others think they are clever.

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Post time 2017-12-2 16:00:14 |Display all floors
TheHermit Post time: 2017-12-2 08:44
You are right..... ideas seem to spring up unexpectedly in different places and different times, t ...

Parmenides has the closest description of God, who has no beginning and no end but just exist as now. This concept is difficult to grasp for humans like us because we live in the constrain of time and space. Even scientists argue and formulate theories based on these constrains. No wonder they cannot prove God exists.
The point you may be driving at is that we are living in illusion whereas reality is that which exists, which is eternity; the life we have is just temporal and we will return to eternity (through death). Is that what you mean?

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Post time 2017-12-4 15:08:46 |Display all floors
huaqiao Post time: 2017-12-2 16:00
Parmenides has the closest description of God, who has no beginning and no end but just exist as n ...

Apologies for taking so long to answer.... managed to catch a cold and have been unwell for a while.
Again, I have to agree that our finite mind is ill-equipped to grasp the infinite. Our predicament reminds me of Einstein's example of the two-dimensional beings ever understanding three dimensional space.
However, with the advent of artificial intelligence there are new hints of how things might be. Take as an example a computer game. The whole exists at once within the memory chip, but it is only when power is turned on that suddenly space and time are created on the screen, and the game begins. As technology progresses, and those characters are endowed with more human-like qualities, they may begin to question the purpose and nature of their existence..... just like us.
Our intellect points to there being a greater collective consciousness, within which everything exists.
The world needs more idiots like me, all the others think they are clever.

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