Author: ceciliazhang

John Kelly: China has a government that has worked for people   [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2017-11-6 15:54:57 |Display all floors
robert237 Post time: 2017-11-5 21:39
You've got your history bass ackwards.
Xiaoping was born in the 20th century and when did the CPC i ...
The French and the US both wanted to make Vietnam a colony.
The CPC furnished Vietnam with materials to make certain this did not happen.


Don't forget Soviet Union, and Vietnam's communist government in Hanoi leaning toward Moscow rather than Beijing.

China was fighting not just one but two wars in Vietnam. It supported the Vietnam government against western imperialists, but meanwhile also supported Viet Cong directly to weaken the Vietmamese allegiance with Soviet Union.

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Post time 2017-11-6 16:22:01 |Display all floors
Jaaja Post time: 2017-11-6 15:09
That's not the whole of it.

Western world has become increasingly interested in how and where the ...

I am not conviced that China's political ideologies are the major contributor to why millions of Chinese were enslaved in sweatshops in past decades, or why they continue to be oppressed in many ways, but it really doesn't matter for majority of the western viewers.

That is because the west just wanted to enjoy cheap goods at other's expense. Now that they realise their enjoyment cannot last forever and comes with a cost in the long term, they are using whatever excuse they can think of to criticise China, using China as a punching bag. They do not care that by doing so, China is being unfairly demonised and the repercussion is what you can see today in the media and also in this forum.

As Chinese have been quoting how the color of the cat does not matter as long as it catches the mouse, the cat should still be put to sleep if it carries a contagious disease. Perhaps if the sick cats would have been removed from the population earlier, the west wouldn't be commenting about the red cats.

The "sick cats" can be found everywhere because greed is a human failure, not a Chinese failure only.


Observing and commenting about people both within and out of your borders (whether that's you, your family, your city, or your country) is part of the "western political ideology" - democracy is to give and accept voice to/from others than just yourself.


The west is so absorbed with its own "democratic" culture, thinking it is the only superior way that they ignore the cultures of others. In some cultures, it is rude to comment on others unfavourably. If there is resistance to this "democratic" culture, the west (such as the media) usually use "freedom" "human rights" ...etc. to condemn or ridicule other cultures.


China's governance model has been secretive to say the least, and in that circumstance the viewers in west have filled blank spots themselves. Sometime incorrectly perhaps, but China can blame itself for that for not being open.


I agree with you on this one.




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Post time 2017-11-6 16:40:07 |Display all floors
Jaaja Post time: 2017-11-6 15:09
That's not the whole of it.

Western world has become increasingly interested in how and where the ...

I replied to you but it disappeared into oblivion.

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Post time 2017-11-6 21:10:57 |Display all floors
robert237 Post time: 2017-11-5 21:39
You've got your history bass ackwards.
Xiaoping was born in the 20th century and when did the CPC i ...



The Chinese were just born as an empire 223 years before christ when their head honcho gave the marching orders to ca. half a million subjects, many of whom were conscripts or convicts, to invade the Nanyue realm that stretched from Panyu to Hanoi. The new chief of the Chinese appointed one Zhao Tuo as commander of the conquerors, and he succeeded. Shortly after setting up shop in the newly acquired territories, he began hobnosing with the non-Chinese natives there, started donning their garb and caused no end of chagrin to the emperor in China. Eventually he decided he wanted to be emperor himself, not of China but of Nanyue, and that he became. After his death, the next Chinese emperor, the first of the Han dynasty, invaded the former Nanyue state a second time and this time it was brutally annexed and made part of China. Hanoi found itself in the Chinese empire, and for the next eight centuries they fought against these northern invaders and finally got rid of them.

In the 20th century, communist China invaded Vietnam again, this time to show that China was the No. One hegemon in Asia, a ruthless oppressor of peoples and rulers who did not toe the Chinese line. China was in cahoots with the Pol Pot murder clique and Vietnam was trying to free the Cambodians of the Pee Pee clique, which enraged China. However, their "punitive mission" kind of backfired - the Chinese lost 15'000 of their own soldiers.

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Post time 2017-11-6 21:25:42 |Display all floors
huaqiao Post time: 2017-11-6 16:22
I am not conviced that China's political ideologies are the major contributor to why millions of C ...


That is because the west just wanted to enjoy cheap goods at other's expense. Now that they realise their enjoyment cannot last forever and comes with a cost in the long term, they are using whatever excuse they can think of to criticise China, using China as a punching bag. They do not care that by doing so, China is being unfairly demonised and the repercussion is what you can see today in the media and also in this forum.


That's looking a hisyory from the wrong side and in he wrong direction. If Westterners today complain that they have been losing jobs and markets to the Chinese, that wasn't always the case.

Initially, China badly needed investment, knowhow and technology, and it couldn't get any of those from anyone but the West (including Japan).

No one in the West at that time dreamed of cheap Chinese-made widgets. Everybody in fact hoped their employers would reap new orders for the huge Chiense market which the West knew was undersupplied with consumer goods. More sober people realized the Chinese didn't even have the money to buy Western-made goods. Still, they all rejoiced when their employers were asked by China to set up branches in China and to produce there for the Chinese market.

For example lifts (or as the N Americans call them: "elevators") were virtually unknown in the early 1980s what with most buildings topping out at 6 to 10 floors. Chinese people were known to walk up and down the stairs to and fro their homes 2 to 10 floors from the ground. Lifts have changed how buildings are built nowadays and how high they are - thanks to US. American company Otis and Swiss lift maker Schindler. These companies still do not buy Chinese-made lifts to install them in Western countries.

The cheap Chinese-made consumer goods started flooding the world in the late 1990s. It's not the cheapness as such that riles people; it is the fact that any Western or foreign business is deprived of marketing its own products in China and actually exporting goods from the world to China whereas China exports to all countries at preferential terms and low import duties.  

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Post time 2017-11-6 21:47:48 |Display all floors
huaqiao Post time: 2017-11-6 16:22
I am not conviced that China's political ideologies are the major contributor to why millions of C ...
enjoy cheap goods at other's expense. Now that they realise their enjoyment cannot last forever


I'm not sure where you get that from...

I think in response to foreign (and let's not forget domestic) criticism toward China, China could simply address those issues. I would think that if anything, the westerners are asking for more expensive produce from China (because what they want China to do would result in increased manufacturing costs).

So I think the source for foreign criticism is not that their toys are about getting pricier, but about the reasons why they have been so cheap to begin with.

And if it isn't clear, by cheap manufacturing costs I mean labor force which have not been allowed to strike or protest to improve their working conditions, salaries or general social injustice that China has practised in the society, extending from factories to remote mountains.

Like I before mentioned, I don't necessarily believe that this is natural characteristics of communist ideology, but rather a side product of the corrupted system. Some official receiving kickbacks from the industry, or the state itself, to keep things running, or just for appearances as was case in the attempted great leap.

The "sick cats" can be found everywhere because greed is a human failure, not a Chinese failure only.


Greed is part of human nature of course, and exists in life in general. It is not a failure - failure is to deny it.

I think the key difference between western systems and communist socialism is, that western systems generally try to take advantage of that (capitalism is one way), while communism tries to deny or ban it's existence but keeps failing repeatedly because greed is so much part of human nature that it cannot be stopped.

And that creates corruption in such systems - if people aren't given sufficient liberty to exercise their greed legally, they will find means to do it illegally. And Chinese society, deep inside recognizing that denying greed is futile, has (in past) silently agreed to let it go on in form of corruption and graft, instead of allowing higher degree of freedom to its citizens.

In that perspective, there are no sick cats in western system - perhaps it could be said that if greed is the sickness, then in west every cat is sick but they have natural tolerance of it. While in China, the cats keep denying that there is sickness among them, yet  still many of them keep dying to it.

west (such as the media) usually use "freedom" "human rights" ...etc. to condemn or ridicule other cultures.


Above I commented about the real sources of western criticism. China's argued shortcomings in civil liberties or human rights are results of mismanaging the original criticism, which have been voiced both from abroad and from within China.

To solve this, China must go to the source of the criticism, which it under current administration has started to do - it is at least making the effort to clear corruption and graft from the system, and to improve rule of law, which are some things the generations before have pursued in vain.

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Post time 2017-11-9 09:20:45 |Display all floors
Its a majestic statement from Kelly and politically smart.

This is where China has to tread carefully. The statement coming from a non-political corner does not carry any global political weight which means US still holds itself the undisputed No. 1. Its designed for Xi's ears only for his feel good factor. Obviously to make it easy for Xi to concede to US openly in Xi's own backyard. Yet globally US had ceded nothing.

This actually shows that US' Trump is trumping and triumphing over Xi.

China should bear in mind that of the so many things in this world, it only has the export numbers that outstrips the US. The rest of the numbers, nothing is in China's favour over US at all with some not even near.

01. Technology, obviously its US.
02. Tech business (Google, Facebook, Twitter, Amazon etc. v Taobao, Alibaba etc.) again its US.
03. Military, its US
04. Education (based on global top 50 universities), its US
05. Talent attraction and retention, its US
06. Environment (clean air/water index etc.), its US
07. Total Gross National Income, its US (even Japan is head and shoulders above China here)
08. Total GDP, its US
09. GDP per capita, its US
10. Gold bullion reserves, its US
11. Land area per capita, its US
12. Fertile, forested & plated land area per capita, its US way above China.
13. Natural mineral reserves (e.g. oil, gas, uranium etc.), its US
14. Most accepted currency, its US
15. Commodities trade volume, its US
16. Commodities trade variety, its US
17. Global political influence, its US
18. Citizen's passport global acceptance, its US

Hence China had better not think it is doing US a favour. China will end up a joke if it does, biggest one maybe too.



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