Author: ceciliazhang

John Kelly: China has a government that has worked for people   [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2017-11-4 05:10:13 |Display all floors
I would be stupid to say that other countries (like China) should slavishly copy the civilization and political models of "the West" (Europe, North America, Australia and - now - Japan). Especially now that "the West" is passing through a time of unrest and disillusionment (Trump, Brexit) in which its less-educated and less-skilled people feel angry that too much of its wealth (an self-esteem!) is concentrated among a rich, skilled minority. However, there are certain requirements for a modern, technological society that were first developed in "the West".
These include a code of laws that provides for a certain degree of individual rights, the subordination of religion to science, a limitation on government corruption, a certain degree of protection for the weak and the poor from bullying by the elites, freedom to question and argue against injustices, and a democratic way to determine political power.
   You will note that I included Japan in "the West". Yes, "Western ways" were forced on the Japanese elites (military and economic) by the US. But the Japanese have taken good advantage of this - and enjoy a very high standard of living. (Also South Korea (ROK), Taiwan and Singapore!)
   China is taking its own "route" to adopting the modern ways to prosperity and social justice. The process remains under the guidance of the Communist Party of China. But the CPC is an essentially "Western" organization. Socialism and Communism are, after-all, very "Western"!
   China should indeed take care to not copy the MISTAKES "the West" has made. Indeed, "the West" may benefit greatly from learning some lessons from China!
My problem is simple: I just know better than everyone-else!

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Post time 2017-11-4 10:03:05 |Display all floors
This post was edited by 1626548377 at 2017-11-4 10:03
phantomguy Post time: 2017-11-3 20:58
What Kelly says is correct and accurate.  Why do you assume that the Chinese are not honest? You a ...

I agree with you, and especially about the person you replied to, the China basher.


"Chinese do not have the credentials of being a nation of invaders"
Because China is not a warmonger terrorist society as some western countries.

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Post time 2017-11-4 12:14:05 |Display all floors
phantomguy Post time: 2017-11-3 20:58
What Kelly says is correct and accurate.  Why do you assume that the Chinese are not honest? You a ...



Gee, you went a long way off topic again, Phan. Look what you counterfactually claimed:

Chinese do not have the credentials of being a nation of invaders.


Maybe the Chinese citizens do not have the credentials of being invaders (though of shrewd illegal immigrants in many countries...) but China certainly does have those creds.

Since you felt inclined to mention Vietnam which the U.S.A. made the mistake of invading (I agree there with you: it was wrong), you chose a bad place to bolster your false allegation. Vietnbam has been attacked by China several times in its entire history and been invaded and colonized for nine centuries.

And Vietnam is not the only country where China brutally entered with military force (and had to be repelled).

But I was thinking of ECONOMIC aspects, not of historic and political ones. Such as imposing unequal trade and investment conditions upon foreign nations to gain their knowhow and technology free of charge and then attack their economies with cheap mass-produced copy products.

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Post time 2017-11-5 08:33:27 |Display all floors
seneca Post time: 2017-11-4 14:14
Gee, you went a long way off topic again, Phan. Look what you counterfactually claimed:

The fact remains  that the USA invaded Vietnam and slaughtered millions in their quest to supposedly
stop the spread of Communism, you are attempting to hide these facts with other situations.  Maybe you should look at the disgusting record of USA invasions and then again you will come up with some "Bullshit" to hide the facts.   The Chinese have a right to follow what ever system they wish and Communism works for them.  The USA system of supposed Democracy is full of bullshit and false historic recording.. What about "The Bay of Iigs" invasion of Cuba in 1959 where the USA supposed Democracy attempted to invade Cuba  with a botched up attempt and for years  said "that it did not happen".  Read the history books of the world rather then the "USA taught bullshit history books" before you start to argue that the USA is not the leading terrorist nation in this world today.

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Post time 2017-11-5 20:55:40 |Display all floors
phantomguy Post time: 2017-11-5 08:33
The fact remains  that the USA invaded Vietnam and slaughtered millions in their quest to supposed ...


Why doesn't the fact that CHINA invaded VIETNAM several [t[imes matter to you Are you blinkered? Why?

It is "disgusting" when the U.S.A. invades a foreign country but it isn't when China does it What queer mind do you cultivate?

To me, both the U.S.A. and China have dreadful, terrible records.

you are attempting to hide these facts with other situations.  Maybe you should look at the disgusting record of USA invasions and then again you will come up with some "Bullshit" to hide the facts.   The Chinese have a right to follow what ever system they wish and Communism works for them


Who disputes that China has the right to practice Communism? Not I. But does it work? You are the only one who says it does. Why did the Chinese need Comrade Xiaoping to right the communist wrongs of the C.P.C. of that time?

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Post time 2017-11-5 21:39:00 |Display all floors
This post was edited by robert237 at 2017-11-5 05:39
seneca Post time: 2017-11-5 04:55
Why doesn't the fact that CHINA invaded VIETNAM several [t[imes matter to you Are you blinkered?  ...

You've got your history bass ackwards.
Xiaoping was born in the 20th century and when did the CPC invade Vietnam?
Are you comparing the 1980 border squirmish with the Vietnam war with France and the US?
The French and the US both wanted to make Vietnam a colony.
The CPC furnished Vietnam with materials to make certain this did not happen.
Friends quarrel, enemies fight the the death, although the US only lost 56,000 while they killed
over a million in Vietnam and Southeast Asia trying to install a puppet government, they still lost the war.

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Post time 2017-11-6 15:09:36 |Display all floors
huaqiao Post time: 2017-11-3 15:20
The sooner the "pro-democrats" realise that each country has its own unique way of government, the b ...

That's not the whole of it.

Western world has become increasingly interested in how and where their cheaply produced goods are manufactured, and since China has been their number one manufacturer, they have become interested of China.

This certaintly was not the case before Deng. Nobody cared about China or the Chinese, because China was not worth the care to them.

That changed with China's opening up. First because China sold goods to them, and later because Chinese took the western manufacturing jobs. Not before long, the west started to react if something that goes against their ideals happens in China. Many such things indeed happened and continued to happen.

But the die is cast, and while "the west" cannot just stop purchasing products from China, China also can not afford to stop producing them - that transition of economy is not yet complete.

I am not conviced that China's political ideologies are the major contributor to why millions of Chinese were enslaved in sweatshops in past decades, or why they continue to be oppressed in many ways, but it really doesn't matter for majority of the western viewers.

Personally I think the cause for criticism from west is really in power hungry and corrupt individuals (if not the whole regime), who hide behind fake political ideologies. If corruption and related mishandling of the population had been prevented in China much earlier, I think much of the criticism toward China's political system would also not have place.

As Chinese have been quoting how the color of the cat does not matter as long as it catches the mouse, the cat should still be put to sleep if it carries a contagious disease. Perhaps if the sick cats would have been removed from the population earlier, the west wouldn't be commenting about the red cats.

Observing and commenting about people both within and out of your borders (whether that's you, your family, your city, or your country) is part of the "western political ideology" - democracy is to give and accept voice to/from others than just yourself.

China's governance model has been secretive to say the least, and in that circumstance the viewers in west have filled blank spots themselves. Sometime incorrectly perhaps, but China can blame itself for that for not being open.

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