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Utopian world and how to achieve it [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2017-7-22 16:28:51 |Display all floors
I want to sidestep from another thread, and discuss or debate how to achieve an utopian world where everyone has what they need and poverty does not exist. Initial discussion tangential to this matter happened in thread where pros and cons of capitalism were discussed.

My opinion is that arguing about merits or demerits of utopian world is secondary to arguing about the way to get there. None of us will get to live in such world, but we are all living on the steps that should lead there.

In this thread, I would like to drop the discussion of capitalism vs socialism vs whatever, and discuss the real issues that we must solve regardless of system.

My initial position is that resources in modern world cannot be equally shared between the whole 7 billion people that we have here, without everyone in developed and semi-developed countries having to drop their living standards by great margin.



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Post time 2017-7-22 16:33:52 |Display all floors
This post was edited by Jaaja at 2017-7-22 20:22

Today I read news about a scientific achievement in Finland, where researchers were able to grow single-cell protein suitable for consumption as food source - using nothing but carbondioxide and hydrogen.

The finished product is similar to quorn which requires photosynthesis and sugar to grow.

Carbondioxide can be taken from air easily, and hydrogen can be produced by electricity which can be generated by solar panels.

The reactor used in experiment was only a size of a coffee cup, and just a big spoonful of the protein could be produced in 2 weeks. But scientists expect this to be scalable and go to commercial production in few years, save permissions form health and other authorities.

This is important, because essentially you are producing food from nothing but air and sunlight. You don't need soil, water or pesticides, and produce no waste.

Source: University press release

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Post time 2017-7-22 16:40:30 |Display all floors
Jaaja Post time: 2017-7-22 16:33
Today I read news about a scientific achievement in Finland, where researchers were able to grow sin ...

The scientists estimated that in comparison to soy for example, this system can convert sun's energy to protein 10 times more efficiently.

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Post time 2017-7-22 20:27:00 |Display all floors

My favourite Utopias all can be squeezed between two book covers and go by names such as "18'000 Leagues Under the Sea" by Jules Verne or "Shangri-La" by an author named Hilton; all published Utopias that have hit the bookshelves since have been decidedly over-politicised, usually with a very disturbing black-and-white presentation of negative facts that needed a positive solution which could only be achived through a bloody revolution.

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Post time 2017-7-22 20:29:43 |Display all floors
Jaaja Post time: 2017-7-22 16:40
The scientists estimated that in comparison to soy for example, this system can convert sun's ener ...

Scientists can be interesting fellows to have a beer with but some of their ideas are so removed from the world's real needs that it would be best to send them to a mental hospital.

As far as I am concerned, I would much rather have a garden plot of my own to grow what I need rather than to be given such laboratory food that tastes like cardboard with vanilla flavour or something.

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Post time 2017-7-22 20:32:27 |Display all floors


If a Westerner pretends he wants to "lift the poor out of their misery" he is a con artist, a drama queen or a charlatan. These Utopists identify "poor" among people who may not consider themselves that; these Utopists need "poor" to promote their personal revolutionary act at someone else's cost.

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Post time 2017-7-22 20:33:41 |Display all floors


Utopists believe they are doing good but they really only are "do-gooders", and that is not the same thing at all! It is a kind of activism for reasons either personal, psychological or unmentionable but surely not moral.

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