Author: linda_sun

Can China take the lead on climate change?   [Copy link] 中文

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Post time 2017-6-6 19:25:30 |Display all floors
phantomguy Post time: 2017-6-6 19:07
is compleat the usa spelling of complete? or are you going back to spelling school dusty?, no doub ...

Do I look like I care what you think, now you think about thar

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Post time 2017-6-6 20:04:17 |Display all floors
Jaaja Post time: 2017-6-6 16:28
One should also consider that for the amount of pollution per capita, USA also produces quite a bi ...

I don't disagree with that - just pointing out that he who produces the most pollution is not necessarily the biggest offender. People need educating to moderate their energy usage. In China, for example, it is commonplace to throw on an extra layer of clothing rather than turn on central heating or draw the curtains rather than turn on the aircon.

But GDP is also potentially misleading since a shirt could potentially be produced in China and sold to the USA for say 1 USD$. The US then inflate the price to a retail level of say 30 US$ excluding taxes. This effectively adds 29 US$ to the USA's GDP but they haven't actually done anything to warrant bragging about beyond screwing the Chinese manufacturer to sell at a punitive price.

It may also be unfair to target manufacturing nations on CO2 and other pollution rather than the consuming, richer nations. If the true cost of manufacturing were added onto the price to pay for non polluting industry then the end consumer would suffer a very significant drop in their standard of living as they could no longer afford the full cost.

I am not sure what an acceptable solution would be but simply finding a convenient offender to blame should not excuse the rest of us.
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Post time 2017-6-6 21:08:57 |Display all floors
fatdragon Post time: 2017-6-6 20:04
I don't disagree with that - just pointing out that he who produces the most pollution is not nece ...
produced in China and sold to the USA for say 1 USD$. The US then inflate the price to a retail level of say 30 US$ excluding taxes. This effectively adds 29 US$ to the USA's GDP


True, but could just as well say that China has been deflating the 1 USD manufacturing cost.

After all, in USA (or elsewhere) the markets operate more freely, and in the end it is the consumers who say whether they want to pay 30 USD or 5 USD for their shirt. Government has little to control on that - at least before Trump (who may force companies to move production back to USA and consumers to pay more).

At the same time in China, if workers would try to go to barricades to demand better pay, theirs revolt would be (and has been) short lived. What was the factory again with surge of workers suiciding?

As far as state influence in market forces goes, I think China is bigger culprit in this picture.

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Post time 2017-6-6 22:13:14 |Display all floors
dusty1 Post time: 2017-6-5 13:27
China is the world's number one polluter it is an intresting question

Chnia is the least polluted as per capita pollution, while the U.S. is the most polluted country per capita

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Post time 2017-6-7 03:18:37 |Display all floors
Chinaman2017 Post time: 2017-6-6 22:13
Chnia is the least polluted as per capita pollution, while the U.S. is the most polluted country p ...

China is still number one with pollution don't try to dress it up it dosent work in the real world

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Post time 2017-6-7 05:10:20 |Display all floors
This post was edited by Ted180 at 2017-6-6 16:11

I consider it unwise for China to to carry-out environmental policies that would hamper the effort to improve the living-standards of the hundreds of millions of its rural population who remain in relative poverty. Certain of our North American mistakes ought to be avoided. Most prominent are the neglect of public transportation (by rail) and the insane multiplicity of inidvidual motor vehicles. The environment becomes a sensible concern only after the standards of living (and the effective consumer demand) of the general population has reached a decent level (as it has in North America, Europe, Japan and Australasia).
My problem is simple: I just know better than everyone-else!

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Post time 2017-6-7 09:06:53 |Display all floors
Jaaja Post time: 2017-6-6 21:08
True, but could just as well say that China has been deflating the 1 USD manufacturing cost.

Af ...

A valid point. If the likes of Apple are using China as a manufacturer to reduce manufacturing costs then the USA have directly contributed to the resulting pollution in China. Arguably any country who buys goods manufactured in another country typically do so because it is cheaper. Goods that are produced using technology that minimises pollution typically escalate the cost.

It is China's decision whether to produce cheaper pollution producing goods or non competitively priced low polluting goods. However, when the choice is one of "Do you want to eat or not?" then it is no choice at all. Perhaps, as with child labour, some attempts should be made globally to outlaw goods produced at the expense of high pollution but until you can have universal acceptance then market forces will always go for the polluting option just as child labour is still thriving in the world for the same reason. I would severely mess with our standards of living though if successful. Do we want that?
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