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Title: Huawei’s global CFO arrested on US order [Print this page]

Author: reedak    Time: 6 DayEarlier     Title: Huawei’s global CFO arrested on US order

1.  Hot on the heels of the Trump-Xi meeting at the G20 in Buenos Aires, the Trump administration took three hostile actions in quick succession against China.

(a)  As usual, the Jekyll and Hyde US leader keeps up pressure on China by tweeting threats of more tariffs if he cannot get what he wishes for.

(b)  It was reported on December 4 that US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo told diplomats and officials In a foreign policy speech that Trump was not abandoning its global leadership but instead reshaping the post-World War Two system on the basis of sovereign states, not multilateral institutions, as it sees fit to stop “bad actors” such as Russia, China and Iran from gaining.

(c)  It was reported on December 5 that Canada has arrested Huawei's global chief financial officer in Vancouver, where she is facing extradition to the US.  The arrest is related to violations of US sanctions against Iran.  Meng Wanzhou, who is one of the vice chairs on the Chinese technology company's board and the daughter of company founder Ren Zhengfei, was arrested on December 1 and a court hearing has been set for Friday.

2.  Meng's arrest throws into question whether Chinese citizens or tourists are safe when they travel to countries allied to the US.  Now it seems that Chinese could be arrested anytime and extradited to the US to be charged for violation of US laws.  It is noted that US sanctions against Iran is itself a violation against international law.  Hence it would be an outrage and laughing stock for a country that violates international law to arrest and charge foreign citizens as though their countries are US colonies.

It is noted that Meng will be the successor of her father.  Hence through this arrest, it seems that the US is trying to destroy Huawei once and for all.  This in turn is an attempt by the US to destroy China’s high tech industry.

Are those hostile actions taken by Trump as additional bargaining chips?  If so, he needs to go for a mental checkup.

Sources as listed below:

reutersdotcom and moneydotusnewsdotcom


Author: emanreus    Time: 6 DayEarlier

re: " Hence it would be an outrage and laughing stock for a country that violates international law to arrest and charge foreign citizens as though their countries are US colonies."


  Canada will be the laughing stock...
The Lady was on her way to Argentina and big bros told little brother what to do...

   However, I'll bet my worn shoe against by worn sock that the Canucks will not dare to hand  over Huawei's global chief financial officer to the Yanks...
Author: markwu    Time: 6 DayEarlier

Suffering from the after-effects of swallowing the US poison pill clause, Canada now becomes an accessory to the US, the only country that uses sanctions as a reason to kidnap the future CEO of a global brand in order to stop it from winning more market share by open competition. What's next? Karate pork chops?
Author: Jaaja    Time: 6 DayEarlier

If you commit a crime in a country, you are charged in and according to laws of that specific country.

China above all, under current leadership, should recognize how important the co-operation between police authorities of different countries is to extradite wanted suspects.

Whether US sanctions are violation of international law or not is irrelevant. In this matter too China is not a stranger to disagreeing with many international laws or standards, and implementing its own instead.

If China wants to continue on that path, it should also respect other countries sovereignty to make their laws (an sanctions) according to their own judicial system, not China's or "international orders". Otherwise it will be China who will become the laughing stock.

If anything, this move form USA (even for readers who disagree with anything usanian), takes USA practises closer to those of China. Chinese should be proud of this!

Author: reedak    Time: 6 DayEarlier

emanreus Post time: 2018-12-6 16:02
re: " Hence it would be an outrage and laughing stock for a country that violates international law  ...

Well said.  I wish to share with everybody here an interesting comment from a netizen in response to a similar thread of mine in a US political forum:

"Something that everyone should take note of, if only for the concerning legal precedent it sets.
If one country can take its laws and apply it to everyone else in the world, what type of place is that going to be?

I haven't specifically checked but I'm pretty sure the U.S. laws she is being charged with don't specifically say they were designed to include foreign citizens in foreign countries anywhere in the world.

If that's how it works, imagine how many laws in other countries you are violating right now."

Author: HailChina!    Time: 6 DayEarlier

So when is China going to ban apple products? Why hasn't China already done this?
Author: emanreus    Time: 6 DayEarlier

HailChina! Post time: 2018-12-6 18:59
So when is China going to ban apple products? Why hasn't China already done this?

No need to ban apple, just be better as them...

   It must hurt them terribly
Author: reedak    Time: 6 DayEarlier

Jaaja Post time: 2018-12-6 17:44
If you commit a crime in a country, you are charged in and according to laws of that specific countr ...

My great friend, thumbs up to you for suggesting China should "take USA practices closer to those of China", for example, by copying their practices.  So you are proud if China starts detaining any US CEO or CFO?  

Author: Jaaja    Time: 6 DayEarlier

reedak Post time: 2018-12-6 18:30
Well said.  I wish to share with everybody here an interesting comment from a netizen in response  ...
I'm pretty sure the U.S. laws she is being charged with don't specifically say they were designed to include foreign citizens in foreign countries anywhere in the world


I believe the point in this case is, that US sanctions against Iran forbid certain US-made products to be exported to Iran, and Huawai has allegedly done that.

Huawei could have done this directly by exporting from their US operations to Iran, which is an obvious break of the sanctions and relevant state laws under US jurisciction.

Huawei could also have been guilty of same crime more indirectly by exporting to Iran components that it had previously imported from USA. In that case the devil would be in details of the contracts between Huawei and the companies it had imported the components from - or the US state, if those exports from USA to China had required special permits (and I'm pretty sure they always do). In this case Huawei could be guilty of simple contract breach.

But until now she is only a suspect, and I don't think that USA is going to get honest answers in any other way than what they are psursuing now - though it's not guaranteed even then.

If Canada doesn't respect USA's request in this case, you can be sure that they will think twice next time China asks to extradite a fugitive of their own.

Author: Mishao    Time: 5 DayEarlier

HailChina! Post time: 2018-12-6 18:59
So when is China going to ban apple products? Why hasn't China already done this?

Right-overdo.
Author: Mishao    Time: 5 DayEarlier

THe US government has never maintained its' word on anything-treaties, bi-literal agreements nor economic pacts. Most EVERY american, regardless of political stripe,distrusts EVERYTHING the government tries to peddle these days .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2o0RnuVjacI
Author: HailChina!    Time: 5 DayEarlier

emanreus Post time: 2018-12-6 19:19
No need to ban apple, just be better as them...

   It must hurt them terribly

I live in Australia where Huawei is banned from 5G network on US orders _ so even though I want to buy another Huawei phone I won't be able to. Huawei is being banned from all west 5G networks so being better means nothing. China must respond.
Author: reedak    Time: 5 DayEarlier

Mishao Post time: 2018-12-7 00:18
THe US government has never maintained its' word on anything-treaties, bi-literal agreements nor eco ...

Well said.  Here are more comments of mine on Meng's arrest:

It is obvious Meng has been targeted and followed for a long time by the US spy agency.  It would not come as a surprise that the Trump administration was planning to arrest her on December 1, which fell on the same day of the dinner meeting, in order to embarrass the Chinese government.

Since Trump took over the presidency, a number of Chinese were arrested for dubious charges either on US soil or in US allied nations.  It is obvious that the Chinese “offenders” have been targeted and followed for a long time by the US spying agency.  Hence it is not surprising that the US spy agency has a list of Chinese citizens (businessmen, military personnel, scientists, students, etc.) for arrest at the right moment.

However doubtful the conspiracy theory, there is no doubt that Trump and his top aides were aware of Meng's arrest on the same day during the dinner meeting.  This shows the hypocrisy of the Trump administration at the trade talks.

Regardless of whoever was paying for the dinner on December 1, it is obvious that the dinner came as a high cost for China as the US would quite likely slap an astronomical fine on Huawei for the dubious "crime".

Author: sfphoto    Time: 5 DayEarlier

Jaaja Post time: 2018-12-6 21:46
I believe the point in this case is, that US sanctions against Iran forbid certain US-made produ ...
But until now she is only a suspect, and I don't think that USA is going to get honest answers in any other way than what they are psursuing now - though it's not guaranteed even then.
You said the magic word “suspect”. But what are the charges? Before you can be suspected of a crime, you must be charged with a crime. As far as I know, no charges has been filed against her and no warrant of arrest has been issued by a US court. Based on the principle of the separation of powers between the judicial and executive branches of the USA government, only a US court can issue a warrant of arrest AFTER charges have been filed. This extrajudicial act of issuing an extraterritorial order to arrest a foreign national on foreign soil by the executive branch of the USA government WITHOUT due process of law smacks of political hijinks designed to deflect the attention of USA public away from the Mueller investigation which is now closing in on Trump in the Russiagate scandal.
Author: emanreus    Time: 5 DayEarlier

HailChina! Post time: 2018-12-7 04:24
I live in Australia where Huawei is banned from 5G network on US orders _ so even though I want to ...

Yesterday the Japs announced that Japan will ban government use of telecoms products made by Chinese tech giants Huawei and ZTE...

The government plans to revise internal procurement rules to exclude products made by Huawei and ZTE. At the the same time they ain't naming the Chinese Companies to avoid angering Beijing.

The ban comes after a US request to 5 eyes allies to avoid products made by the two companies over fears they contain viruses used for cyberattacks, the Yomiuri said, citing unnamed government sources.

  Bullieng is part of modern society
Author: huaqiao    Time: 5 DayEarlier

sfphoto Post time: 2018-12-7 10:23
You said the magic word “suspect”. But what are the charges? Before you can be suspected of a cr ...

Well said!! That is the fact!!
Author: huaqiao    Time: 5 DayEarlier

It is another way of US to stop the competition (Huawei) from expanding and growing stronger. 5G is a new technology and Huawei is one of the leading company in this technology. The old accusation/lie of "stealing technology" cannot be applied in this case since it would be ridiculous to do so. Hence, the next best thing for US to do is the mafia way--kidnap the competition and force a deal. After all, "desperate times call for desperate measures".
Author: huaqiao    Time: 5 DayEarlier

emanreus Post time: 2018-12-7 12:23
Yesterday the Japs announced that Japan will ban government use of telecoms products made by Chine ...

BT of Britain also rejected Huawei. So did New Zealand. So the 5-eyes are now working together to bring back their hegemonic dominance. All this done based on simple accusations without evidence against Huawei.
Author: Jaaja    Time: 5 DayEarlier

reedak Post time: 2018-12-6 20:14
My great friend, thumbs up to you for suggesting China should "take USA practices closer to those  ...
those of China", for example, by copying their practices.  So you are proud if China starts detaining any US CEO or CFO?


My point was that China is very well known to apprehend citizens of other countries, both in China and abroad, with or without legal warrants, if they are suspected of breaking laws in China (even outside Beijing's jurisdiction). Which has sometimes been a debatable pretext to begin with, due to lack of rule of law in China.

This case of extradition request between USA and Canada is not such case though - it follows usual international diplomacy and co-operation between law enforcement agencies of different countries. This is something that China itself does (at least most of the time), when it wants a suspect for graft or whatever to appear in China for hearing or sentencing.

My point was also not what China or USA should do. My point was that from China's point of view (and I'm not Chinese), Chinese should acknowledge that if this request from USA would be considered questionable (to me it isn't), it is something you could expect from China herself.

So I'd expect Chinese to be proud that USA is adopting this dimension of "Chinese world order". If not, are the Chinese themselves then questioning their own world order, but silenced from speaking out?

Author: Jaaja    Time: 5 DayEarlier

sfphoto Post time: 2018-12-7 10:23
You said the magic word “suspect”. But what are the charges? Before you can be suspected of a cr ...

First, welcome back.

As far as I know, no charges has been filed against her


According to Huawei, "she faces unspecified charges in the Eastern District of New York".

I don't know enough of US (or Canadian) judicial system to tell if all charges need to be fully publicized, but I assume not.

Anyway, according to reports Meng herself specifically asked Canadian authorities to block the police and prosecutors from releasing information about the case, so there's another reason why you wouldn't know what she's charged with. It was her own wish that you wouldn't know.

So don't be too quick to conclude that she was arrested without charges, or otherwise extrajudicially.

Author: sfphoto    Time: 5 DayEarlier

Jaaja Post time: 2018-12-7 15:52
First, welcome back.

Thanks.

But due process requires certain rules of procedure to be followed as applied to foreign nationals on foreign territories. If charges had been filed before a US Court, then a summons must be served on the accused to appear for arraignment. If the defendant fails to appear by a certain date, then a warrant of arrest will be issued by the US Court. The US law enforcement agencies will then request INTERPOL to issue a “red notice” to the member-State which would then enforce the US arrest warrant on behalf of the US Court.

It’s not clear to me whether Canada or the USA followed due process in this case, because it looks too rough, more like a rogue operation with political motives.

Author: Jaaja    Time: 5 DayEarlier

sfphoto Post time: 2018-12-7 16:28
Thanks.

But due process requires certain rules of procedure to be followed as applied to foreign  ...
It’s not clear to me whether Canada or the USA followed due process in this case


We would know much more, if Meng had allowed the information to become public. It was her choice - or more likely her employer's instructions.

Author: wchao37    Time: 5 DayEarlier

This post was edited by wchao37 at 2018-12-7 18:10

I have long held the position that it is futile for the top Chinese leader to make an appointment to meet with Trump.  

No promise made by the Scoundrel has ever been kept, so why go for such talks in the first place?

And you would notice that the entire U.S. team for trade talks was present at the table, and thus they all gained audience to size up our president at close quarters -- an opportunity they usually wouldn't have had under normal circumstances.

Normally such talks should be conducted by trading experts led by his subordinates and not the Chinese president himself.

So what's the difference, you ask?

A huge difference -- because what the Chinese president said would be held as sacrosanct even without the signed documents while whatever Trump said could not be held to nearly the same standards.

That's the difference between East and West or in this case, China and the U.S.

So the entire appointment to 'talk about trade' was a trap set by Trump and his team, and we took the bait, still cherishing the notion that there could be a win-win outcome.

The next step from the U.S. side will be more high-pressure tactics forcing the Chinese negotiator to give up more than he possibly can in the following 90 days, by falsely claiming that the U.S. offer had already been agreed to by the Chinese president -- according to U.S. interpretation -- at the G20 meeting, which of course would be a total hoax.

Yes, it was a total trap set by Trump -- always preceded by his proclamation that the Chinese leader was his 'personal friend' whom he greatly admired and so on and so forth.

You don't do to your enemy what Trump does to his 'personal friend.'

That this approach has become the soul of his deal should have become obvious to everyone.
Author: GhostBuster    Time: 5 DayEarlier

emanreus Post time: 2018-12-6 16:02
re: " Hence it would be an outrage and laughing stock for a country that violates international law  ...

Please confirm your comments!

Author: wchao37    Time: 5 DayEarlier

This post was edited by wchao37 at 2018-12-7 18:45

There's no doubt in my mind that Trump and his team knew about Ms. Meng's pending arrest as she was transiting through Canada to go to a third nation.

So everything that transpired and agreed to at the talks should be rejected outright as China's support to the rule of international law and Huawei because the entire edifice upon which Huawei has built its credibility and global respect is not only its technological prowess, but that it has a strong motherland as its support.

If our government appears weak at this juncture and not make the strongest DEMAND for Meng's immediate release, a huge chunk of the Western world will abandon Huawei's 5G standard because people would feel uncomfortable in the presence of a weak government which cannot protect its own citizens from unlawful arrest.

Just think how the U.S. would react if one of its ordinary citizens gets arrested in China legally for a criminal offense -- Trump asked the Chinese leader for the man's release during his first visit to Beijing in 2017 and it was done pronto without any legal proceedings in China -- which at the time already made a mockery of Chinese law in front of the world's audience.

Just remember how the entire U.S. welcomed the return of several convicted U.S. citizens back from North Korea.

People will contrast in their minds the worth of such ordinary U.S. citizens with that of VIP citizens like Ms. Meng, the eldest daughter of Huawei's president, who has not disobeyed any law other than what the U.S. had unilaterally claimed to be punishable as part of its sanctions against a third nation -- Iran..

It is time for the Chinese side to show more than just verbal protests and demand Meng's immediate return from Canada -- or let the Canadians face serious consequences.

China should tell Trudeau to get lost in no uncertain terms, and that he's not worthy of his late dad the former Canadian president Pierre Trudeau.
Author: emanreus    Time: 5 DayEarlier

GhostBuster Post time: 2018-12-7 18:14
Please confirm your comments!

re: "However, I'll bet my worn shoe against by worn sock that the Canucks will not dare to hand  over Huawei's global chief financial officer to the Yanks..."

   Nothing to confirm...
Canada wouldn't be so foolish to hand the lady over to the Yanks...
I'll throw in my second sock as well
Author: wchao37    Time: 5 DayEarlier

emanreus Post time: 2018-12-7 19:19
re:  "However, I'll bet my worn shoe against by worn sock that the Canucks will not dare to hand   ...

It is not up to the Canadians to refuse extradition at this point in time or else they wouldn't have arrested her in the first place.

Trudeau's government succumbed once already in the post-NAFTA talks, so with the addition of the "Poison Pill" in their new trade agreement with America it wouldn't be too surprising to see that they will comply with U.S. wishes unless China gives them an offer at this crucial juncture -- an offer so powerful that they couldn't refuse.

Everything is now up to our government.
Author: wchao37    Time: 5 DayEarlier

Meng the CFO of Huawei, is the eldest daughter of the president of Huawei from the latter's first marriage.

He mother's surname was Meng and the woman took over her mom's surname by her own volition when she was still in her teens.

She is still one out of four vice-chairpersons of Huawei in the line-up, and her impending arrest and extradition to the U.S. is a warlike act by the Americans at the behest of such characters as Senator Ru.bio who is actively working towards the goal of becoming the next U.S. presidential candidate for his party, and who else is more suitable to be used for bashing purposes as the daughter of Huawei's president.

Her arrest offers solid proof of the fact that the New Cold War is already upon us.  Think of all the fear that would be induced in all these high-profile travelers to third nations passing through customs of nations at the beck and call of the U.S.
Author: Jaaja    Time: 5 DayEarlier

wchao37 Post time: 2018-12-7 18:40
There's no doubt in my mind that Trump and his team knew about Ms. Meng's pending arrest as she was  ...
the entire edifice upon which Huawei has built its credibility and global respect is not only its technological prowess, but that it has a strong motherland as its support. [...] huge chunk of the Western world will abandon Huawei's 5G standard because people would feel uncomfortable in the presence of a weak government which cannot protect its own citizens from unlawful arrest.


But isn't this cited support, and alleged deeper links to the Chinese government, the whole reason why that huge chunk of western world is abandoning Huawei's technology?

You cannot be serious suggesting that taking the government affiliation even further serves to reduce those opinions in any way, quite the contrary.

who has not disobeyed any law other than what the U.S. had unilaterally claimed to be punishable


None of us knows the details of Huawei's operations in US, nor details of contracts between Huawei's operations in China and their suppliers in US. If those contracts contain clauses that restrict resales of some technology to countries that are under US sanctions (regardless of those being legal or illegal under international law), then breaking those clauses would put Huawei to breach of those contracts, and for all we know, that's all what Meng could be wanted for.

demand Meng's immediate return from Canada -- or let the Canadians face serious consequences.


In other words, bye bye Huawei from western world.

Author: GhostBuster    Time: 5 DayEarlier

emanreus Post time: 2018-12-7 19:19
re:  "However, I'll bet my worn shoe against by worn sock that the Canucks will not dare to hand   ...

Canada Prime Minister said that he was aware!
If Canada hands over to conform with extradiction policy signed, then Canada will have to admit that US is very good neighbor as it helps to get rid of top harmful elements from the world!
Author: GhostBuster    Time: 5 DayEarlier

emanreus Post time: 2018-12-7 19:19
re:  "However, I'll bet my worn shoe against by worn sock that the Canucks will not dare to hand   ...

Never know!
Canada may have to give in to US!
US muscle is tough to deal with!
Author: GhostBuster    Time: 5 DayEarlier

emanreus Post time: 2018-12-7 19:19
re:  "However, I'll bet my worn shoe against by worn sock that the Canucks will not dare to hand   ...

Problem is if US successfully extradicts and US Trump could not win the US-China Trade War along with US economy ushering into its own winter, then it is time for the world to know the PLAIN PAIN TRUTH!

Author: cmknight    Time: 4 DayEarlier

emanreus Post time: 2018-12-6 16:02
re: " Hence it would be an outrage and laughing stock for a country that violates international law  ...

Umm, no, actually. She was transiting from Hong Kong to Mexico, via Vancouver. She was arrested while changing flights. She and her family knew of US intentions for months, and was avoiding changing planes in the United States.

Canada will not be a laughing stock in any way, shape, or form. We have an extradition treaty with the United States, but in order for her to be extradited, the US must turn over all of their evidence in order for Canadian courts to determine if the extradition is warranted. If our courts do NOT feel that the US has a strong enough case against Meng, she will be set free to go about her business.

One thing we do not do here ... unlike some other countries I know of ... is allow politics to get in the way of our judiciary system.
Author: cmknight    Time: 4 DayEarlier

reedak Post time: 2018-12-6 18:30
Well said.  I wish to share with everybody here an interesting comment from a netizen in response  ...

She allegedly misled (lied to) several US financial institutes, in order to obtain financing, therefore committed fraud under US law. If I lied to several Chinese financial institutes, I would be guilty of violating Chinese laws, would I not?
Author: cmknight    Time: 4 DayEarlier

reedak Post time: 2018-12-7 10:09
Well said.  Here are more comments of mine on Meng's arrest:

It is obvious Meng has been targeted ...

The arrest warrant was issued on August 22nd, and the arrest was made after the dinner had already started. Therefore Trump could not have known she was arrested before the dinner.
Author: cmknight    Time: 4 DayEarlier

sfphoto Post time: 2018-12-7 10:23
You said the magic word “suspect”. But what are the charges? Before you can be suspected of a cr ...

Charges were filed and an arrest warrant issued on August 22nd.

Before you can be suspected of a crime, you must be charged with a crime.


Wrong. You must be suspected and evidence produced, first, BEFORE you can be charged with a crime. You cannot be charged with a crime, unless there is suspicion and evidence that a crime has taken place first.
Author: cmknight    Time: 4 DayEarlier

Jaaja Post time: 2018-12-7 15:52
First, welcome back.

There was a publication ban in place, that is why the charges were "unspecified". The media fought to repeal the publication ban, and won, so the charges are now known to the public.
Author: cmknight    Time: 4 DayEarlier

GhostBuster Post time: 2018-12-7 23:04
Canada Prime Minister said that he was aware!
If Canada hands over to conform with extradiction po ...

IF Canada extradites her, it would be based on the evidence that the United States has provided. They have 60 days in which to prove their case to Canadian courts. If the courts feel that the evidence is warranted and sufficient, she will be extradited. If any of the evidence is suspect, then it is all suspect, and extradition will be denied.
Author: emanreus    Time: 4 DayEarlier

GhostBuster Post time: 2018-12-7 23:04
Canada Prime Minister said that he was aware!
If Canada hands over to conform with extradiction po ...

re: "  then Canada will have to admit that US is very good neighbor as it helps to get rid of top harmful elements from the world!"


  Canada is small (some 37 million people),

Australia's population is equivalent to 0.32% of the total world population, (some 23.5 million people), but both are under tremendous pressure from uncle Sam...


Author: emanreus    Time: 4 DayEarlier

wchao37 Post time: 2018-12-7 19:44
Meng the CFO of Huawei, is the eldest daughter of the president of Huawei from the latter's first ma ...

No fear at all,

USA is the last place I could bother to visit...
  Any company still dealing with them will have to bite into the sour apple sooner then later
Author: emanreus    Time: 4 DayEarlier

This post was edited by emanreus at 2018-12-8 12:35
GhostBuster Post time: 2018-12-7 23:07
Problem is if US successfully extradicts and US Trump could not win the US-China Trade War along w ...

re: "Problem is if US successfully extradicts and US Trump could not win the US-China Trade War along with US economy ushering into its own winter,"

  In my opinion, this case got nothing to do with President Trump...

  It originated from N.Y., a stronghold of the opposition to damage Trump's damage control with Beijing to end the trade war...  
Author: huaqiao    Time: 4 DayEarlier

What if China enacts a law that criminalises any foreign supplier of weapons to Taiwan?
Author: gork    Time: 4 DayEarlier

Straightforward Gangsterism

The Great Satan's unilateral sanctions on Iran are illegal in international law. The Great Satan only abrogated the JCPOA in May so penalties applied to ZTE and now Huawei are ex post facto. The JCPOA guaranteed that Iran's trade would not be prejudiced.

John Bolton is a rabid tool of the illegitimate state of New Izrael. China continues to purchase iranian oil and can only do so using yuan because Iran refuses to accept "worthless paper" USD.

The blatant criminality YET AGAIN, of the Great Satan means the rabidly pro-Great Satan Boom Bust is pre-empting criticism with guttersniping according to the scurrilous Anglo motto: "admit nothing; deny everything; counteraccuse".

Capital Account's Lauren Lyster was the victim of abuse from one of her own former guests, a lawyer to the banksters. Prime Interest also reported too many truths and was soon got rid of.
The two programmes exposed the TARP cash going mostly to banksters rather than home-borrowers as well as one of the goons & thugs grovelling to Jamie Dimon. They also exposed the fact that the wrong charges had been brought against Dimon and Corzine so that they could escape prison.

Boom Bust has always been rabidly pro-Great Satan with very obviously one-sided BS. But now former CFTC commissioner, Bart Chilton, has taken it to new depths with straightforward lying. This is why his only guests are regular sleazebag guttersnipes such as "conservative commentator", Steve Malzberg and Hillary Fordwitch.

Chilton has whined that he found nothing he could prosecute anyone for at the CFTC. But he should have looked no further than the CFTC itself which GATA claims imposed limits on longs not shorts; exactly the wrong way round. He should have prosecuted himself!

In her guttersniping, Fordwitch cited the video clip showing a protestor blocking a tank in China. Yet the un-edited clip shows him climbing aboard the tank and chatting to the driver.By contrast, Rachel Corrie was mowed down in cold-blood when she bravely tried to stop the illegitimate state of New Izrael bulldozing palestinian homes. The piece of exrement that murdered her, claimed he didn't see her.

Even the jewish controlled state-run BBC has used the term "hostage" and "princess", in other words, princess Leia from Star Wars: "Huawei arrest of Meng Wangzhou: A 'hostage' in a new US-China tech war". It's not as though these gangster scum AREN'T robbing their own sheeple such that a kanadian skoolgirl's "They're robbing us!" post goes viral.

But as princess Leia said, "The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers". Everyone on the planet has had enough of the anglo/zionist criminality including Amerikans. One Poodleville commentator on RT.com said he was "sick to the back teeth" of the daft propaganda attacking Russia.

These vermin also kidnapped Kim Dotcom and Navinder Sarao, extoring tens of millions out of them despite neither having violated any laws in the gangster-run, thieved prison-states of New Zealand and Poodleville respectively. "The first time the mail-boat was a day late" they LITERALLY started eating one another.

Following Meng's KIDNAPPING or "extraordinary rendition", follows Japan's arrest of Carlos Ghosn. In response, Japan has followed the "Five Eyes" gangster-run, Anglo-thieved prison-states in blocking Huawei and ZTE.

This follows a consistent pattern of punishment typical of gangsters. If you attack one of them, they will, unfairly, attack an innocent. So to punish Japan, they attack China. This is an attempt to cause strife between Japan and China. Japan's announcement of the ban included a statement that she wants to maintain cordial relations with China.
Author: Liononthehunt    Time: 4 DayEarlier

huaqiao Post time: 2018-12-8 15:39
What if China enacts a law that criminalises any foreign supplier of weapons to Taiwan?

A brilliant idea.
Author: gork    Time: 4 DayEarlier

Absurdity in Law

Chinese citizens are NOT subject to Great Satan laws. The sanctions imposed on Iran are illegal in international law. Furthermore, the Great Satan only abrogated the JCPOA in May so these vermin are trying to impose ex post facto penalties on Huawei. So this CANNOT be an arrest. It is a kidnapping. THAT is why the Great Satan has not explained what the charges are.

The Great Satan has previously tried to set a precedent by demanding that ships that dock in the land that they thieved should abide by Great Satan labour laws. It has also held emergency 24-hour kangaroo kourts to try and block Russia's prosecution of russian citizens in Russia. More recently these rabid nutjobs have been threatening China and India with sanctions for buying russian armaments.

For example, China could impose a law against stooopidity. Then any Anglo or Jew could be kidnapped anywhere in the World and extradited (extraordinary renditioned) to China for prosecution. Absurd!
Author: gork    Time: 4 DayEarlier

huaqiao Post time: 2018-12-8 15:39
What if China enacts a law that criminalises any foreign supplier of weapons to Taiwan?

Exactly!

Meng is NOT subject to Great Satan laws.
Author: emanreus    Time: 4 DayEarlier

huaqiao Post time: 2018-12-8 15:39
What if China enacts a law that criminalises any foreign supplier of weapons to Taiwan?

Any Country may enact any law, however, you must be prepared to back it up.
Author: Liononthehunt    Time: 4 DayEarlier

emanreus Post time: 2018-12-6 16:02
re: " Hence it would be an outrage and laughing stock for a country that violates international law  ...

Canada is an unmitigated little clown.
Author: Liononthehunt    Time: 4 DayEarlier

Jaaja Post time: 2018-12-6 17:44
If you commit a crime in a country, you are charged in and according to laws of that specific countr ...
If you commit a crime in a country, you are charged in and according to laws of that specific country.


Ms. Meng is in no violation of any US law in the US, while the US is unscrupulously infringing on her basic human rights, i.e. freedom of movement with Canada as its ignominious lackey. You are playing loose with the truth, as always.

Whether US sanctions are violation of international law or not is irrelevant.


Yes, I know anything related to integrity and morality is irrelevant to you.

If anything, this move form USA (even for readers who disagree with anything usanian), takes USA practises closer to those of China. Chinese should be proud of this!


A very intriguing remark it is. Your country has kept being screwed up over and over throughout its history by its powerful neighbors, and then the US, and it sounds you are very proud of that. You are supposed to be bestowed upon a model citizen medal by the Finnish government.
Author: Liononthehunt    Time: 4 DayEarlier

Jaaja Post time: 2018-12-6 21:46
I believe the point in this case is, that US sanctions against Iran forbid certain US-made produ ...

The Iran Unclear Deal was struck between Iran and international community members, which lifted embargo off the country in exchange of Iran shelving its nuclear weapons program. Then the Trump administration annulled it, despite the outcry of every stakeholders, including its allies. Even today, the US's western allies are still expressing their commitment to honoring the treaty.

China is not beholden to the US in any way, and not as pliable as its small lackeys like your country. The US can say whatever it wants to say, and ride roughshod over its little brothers like Finland, and it surely will shoot itself in the foot if it goes rogue like this with China.
Author: sfphoto    Time: 4 DayEarlier

cmknight Post time: 2018-12-8 11:45
Charges were filed and an arrest warrant issued on August 22nd.
Wrong. You must be suspected and evidence produced, first, BEFORE you can be charged with a crime. You cannot be charged with a crime, unless there is suspicion and evidence that a crime has taken place first.

My mistake, the corrected sentence in my last post should read:

Before you can be arrested for a crime, you must be charged with a crime.


So it looks like a US court did issue a warrant for her arrest after charges were filed against her.

Author: Liononthehunt    Time: 4 DayEarlier

Jaaja Post time: 2018-12-7 20:06
But isn't this cited support, and alleged deeper links to the Chinese government, the whole reas ...

It sounds you don't know much about the US that has been injecting huge amount of fundings into reserach and development of technologies of strategic signficance.

None of us knows the details of Huawei's operations in US, nor details of contracts between Huawei's operations in China and their suppliers in US. If those contracts contain clauses that restrict resales of some technology to countries that are under US sanctions (regardless of those being legal or illegal under international law), then breaking those clauses would put Huawei to breach of those contracts, and for all we know, that's all what Meng could be wanted for.


It transpires you know very little about the lowdown of this case, but you still throw your conjectures and theories around, you may stop doing that.

In other words, bye bye Huawei from western world.


The west has been attempting to contain Huawei for years, it could thrive without the west then, and it also could now.
Author: Jaaja    Time: 4 DayEarlier

huaqiao Post time: 2018-12-8 15:39
What if China enacts a law that criminalises any foreign supplier of weapons to Taiwan?

If a foreign weapons supplier sells weapons to Taiwan, it is highly unlikely that they would at the same time have any business in PRC. Remember that for many western countries, PRC is still under arms embargo.

They would therefore be performing no crime on PRC's soil, and for the alleged crime on Taiwanese soil to constitute a crime under PRC jurisdiction, PRC would first have to take Taiwan's jurisdiction over.

Meanwhile in this case with Meng, the alleged crime was to lie to US financial institutions about Iran connections.

Equal scenario with Taiwan would be, if a US businessman walked to Bank of China in Beijing and borrowed money, not disclosing the fact that the money would be used to sell weapons to Taiwan.

Author: GhostBuster    Time: 4 DayEarlier

huaqiao Post time: 2018-12-8 15:39
What if China enacts a law that criminalises any foreign supplier of weapons to Taiwan?

Wonderful!
No one does not know that the world is a JUNGLE!
China could not do that because China has a government that does not have that power or authority to do so, at least for now!
Hence, before China could, US must smash head on!
US knows that if this opportunity is missed, then it will be turned into a hen from a rooster!
Author: GhostBuster    Time: 4 DayEarlier

cmknight Post time: 2018-12-8 12:04
IF Canada extradites her, it would be based on the evidence that the United States has provided. T ...

Sixty days is a very nice time to keep her waiting!
Those whoses hands are dusted with dirt know the final result.

Author: GhostBuster    Time: 4 DayEarlier

emanreus Post time: 2018-12-8 12:24
re: "  then Canada will have to admit that US is very good neighbor as it helps to get rid of top  ...

Yes, you are correct!
US demands must be met with failure of which will be met with severe punitive measures.

Author: GhostBuster    Time: 4 DayEarlier

emanreus Post time: 2018-12-7 19:19
re:  "However, I'll bet my worn shoe against by worn sock that the Canucks will not dare to hand   ...

Politics is a game for those who dare!
It is dark, dirty and merciless!
She has to get the taste!

Author: GhostBuster    Time: 4 DayEarlier

Jaaja Post time: 2018-12-7 16:50
We would know much more, if Meng had allowed the information to become public. It was her choice ...

CFO of Huawei arrested!
Beijing shot through the roof!
How childish!
POLITICS is a game for the daring!
It is filthy, dark and merciless!
One who dare must be ready to on the NO RETURN TICKET LIST!
Otherwise, go home and cry to mother!
No one cares!
Author: cmknight    Time: 3 DayEarlier

GhostBuster Post time: 2018-12-8 21:26
Sixty days is a very nice time to keep her waiting!
Those whoses hands are dusted with dirt know t ...

She could be freed on bail, with an electronic monitoring bracelet/anklet. She could live with her husband in Vancouver while she is waiting (but not able to leave the country). At least our legal system here allows her the right to fight until the very last moment. Her lawyer/s is/are working very hard to secure her freedom, and thus, her innocence, so my advice would be to not interfere, and let Canadian law run its course. The United States still has to prove their extradition request, which seems, in my view, unlikely to happen. So far, they have offered no proof, only accusations.
Author: wchao37    Time: 3 DayEarlier

But isn't this cited support, and alleged deeper links to the Chinese government, the whole reason why that huge chunk of western world is abandoning Huawei's technology?  You cannot be serious suggesting that taking the government affiliation even further serves to reduce those opinions in any way, quite the contrary.


Your arguments are stale as usual, and it seems the only thing you are good at doing is quoting from what I said.  Your own passage above doesn't make any sense.  The only reason Huawei is having these problems is because of U.S. behind-the-scenes machinations telling its supposed 'partners' (even while it is sanctioning them) not to adopt Huawei's 5G platform.  Government affiliation is just an excuse. The Brits are building a nuclear plant at Hinckley Pt. and they know full well they are also dealing with the Chinese government, and yet you don't see any objection over the deal when it benefits them.

None of us knows the details of Huawei's operations in US, nor details of contracts between Huawei's operations in China and their suppliers in US. If those contracts contain clauses that restrict resales of some technology to countries that are under US sanctions (regardless of those being legal or illegal under international law), then breaking those clauses would put Huawei to breach of those contracts, and for all we know, that's all what Meng could be wanted for.


The rarity of this kind of arrest attests to the political nature of the action.  The U.S. is simply showing signs of hyper-anxiety about the quick advances made by Huawei in its 5G technologies, and is now resorting to the use of gangster action targeting its commercial competitors.  

If you seriously want to criminalize the so-called transfer of technology with a few non-core U.S. components in Huawei's core technology and use it as an excuse to arrest someone like Meng on account of U.S. sanctions, then China should rightfully do the same thing against any U.S. firm that is involved in transfer of military technology or weapons to Taiwan in violation of the Three Communiques.

In other words, bye bye Huawei from western world.


You told us you're not a native English speaker, but you reside in the States and are speaking on behalf of the segment of Westerners that are unfriendly towards China.  I would like to know why are you rejoicing over the possibility that Huawei might have some difficulty in getting Anglo nations to adopt the 5G platform, as is evidenced by your "bye-bye" comment above?
Author: wchao37    Time: 3 DayEarlier

Canada will not be a laughing stock in any way, shape, or form. We have an extradition treaty with the United States, but in order for her to be extradited, the US must turn over all of their evidence in order for Canadian courts to determine if the extradition is warranted. If our courts do NOT feel that the US has a strong enough case against Meng, she will be set free to go about her business.


Of course Canada is already the laughing stock of the whole world.  

First you succumbed to U.S. pressure against NAFTA after your trade representative appeared before the cameras to deliver a super-tough speech about how her government would not do so.  In the end that's exactly what Canada did -- succumbed to such pressure without a fight.

One thing we do not do here ... unlike some other countries I know of ... is allow politics to get in the way of our judiciary system.


If this case is not the ultimate example of politics getting in the way of your judiciary system, then what is Meng doing being jailed in Vancouver, B.C. awaiting extradition to the U.S.?
Author: wchao37    Time: 3 DayEarlier

GhostBuster Post time: 2018-12-8 21:57
Politics is a game for those who dare!
It is dark, dirty and merciless!
She has to get the taste!

Politics is dirty but this is not just politics.  This is wanton disregard of international law using gangster logic and is tantamount to kidnapping Meng while she was in transit through Canada.

Tillerson, the former U.S. Secretary of State just told the world that while he was working in the White House under Trump, he often had to warn the president not to do illegal things, and the latter twitted back resorting to name-calling tactics saying that Tillerson was 'lazy.'

Let's just face it, Trump is a product of the American political system and he has a criminal mindset witnessed by none other than his own hand-picked Secretary of State.
Author: CuriousGeorge    Time: 3 DayEarlier



    First of all, I don't want to go into all that details.


All I know is the fact that Huawei is competing hard and becoming strong globally, slowly and gradually.


As a matter of fact, its becoming alarmingly strong for them.


They want to keep China to continue supplying all those low tech products, cheap stuff that they don't want to make at home, while they would do all they can to keep China out from becoming a global competitor in high tech products.


That's the bottom line, and the rest is the history.
  


That's the main point the Canada, USA, Australia & NewZealand are doing altogether as part of their all in the family tradation.


Read more hidden truth below -

https://bbs.chinadaily.com.cn/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=724132




Author: wchao37    Time: 3 DayEarlier

emanreus Post time: 2018-12-8 19:03
Any Country may enact any law, however, you must be prepared to back it up.

Well this is what all cop-killing bank robbers say -- they have their own anti-social laws and are prepared to back up their bank robbery act by using their sub-machine guns.
Author: wchao37    Time: 3 DayEarlier

huaqiao Post time: 2018-12-8 15:39
What if China enacts a law that criminalises any foreign supplier of weapons to Taiwan?

That's exactly what I said, and China doesn't even need to enact any national laws to deal with it.

If the Three Communiques are just blue ink on a piece of black paper meant for the shredder, then let the Americans send a warship to visit Gaoxiong Harbor and see what happens.  

The fact that they didn't dare to do it during the November naval exercise shows that rational minds still had their say in the U.S. government.  

Until now, that is.  Meng's arrest nullifies all that 'goodwill.'

If left to John Bolton, he would have sent those ships into the harbor already.  What did the weird loner got to lose personally if he could maneuver Trump into delivering such an affront to the Chinese?
Author: huaqiao    Time: 3 DayEarlier

Liononthehunt Post time: 2018-12-8 18:13
A brilliant idea.

. Unfortunately, China is not rogue like the US. US wants to be overlord of the world. US law becomes "international law". The spy network infiltrates into every country and make sure other countries obey US law. Yet, no country dares to stand up to US, including those "democratic" ones. Looks like anyone can say one thing and yet do otherwise. Why should the world be ruled by Mafia laws?
Author: huaqiao    Time: 3 DayEarlier

gork Post time: 2018-12-8 18:24
Exactly!

Meng is NOT subject to Great Satan laws.


Author: huaqiao    Time: 3 DayEarlier

emanreus Post time: 2018-12-8 19:03
Any Country may enact any law, however, you must be prepared to back it up.

China is not rogue like the US. I was mentioning a hypothesis to show how absurd US could be.
Author: GhostBuster    Time: 3 DayEarlier

cmknight Post time: 2018-12-9 01:23
She could be freed on bail, with an electronic monitoring bracelet/anklet. She could live with her ...

For electronic tagging, the truth is the tag would be left to be worn by a dog, while she went shopping and other fun!
Author: GhostBuster    Time: 3 DayEarlier

wchao37 Post time: 2018-12-9 03:55
Politics is dirty but this is not just politics.  This is wanton disregard of international law us ...

When one is the most powerful and second to none, the rest has to remain silent and obey!
This is the real world!
Author: huaqiao    Time: 3 DayEarlier

Jaaja Post time: 2018-12-8 20:49
If a foreign weapons supplier sells weapons to Taiwan, it is highly unlikely that they would at th ...
They would therefore be performing no crime on PRC's soil, and for the alleged crime on Taiwanese soil to constitute a crime under PRC jurisdiction, PRC would first have to take Taiwan's jurisdiction over.


In a similar vein, Meng would not have been charged if US had not such unjust sanctions. You can argue over the law but I am more interested in whether the sanctions (or any law) is just and fair. US cannot ride roughshod over every country and demand that they obey US laws. In this case, it seems like it is so and Canada is very obedient. The issue is not about the law, but about true justice. Why should one country insists on the "rule of the law" when the "law" is unjust?
Author: huaqiao    Time: 3 DayEarlier

GhostBuster Post time: 2018-12-8 21:23
Wonderful!
No one does not know that the world is a JUNGLE!
China could not do that because China  ...

I do not think China is rogue like the US. I was just making a hypothesis. US is like the Mafia now. Day in day out making false accusations and speculations against China non-stop. This is a form of attack against China in the hope that China will cave in. I hope the ruling party is strong and wise enough to see through it.
Author: huaqiao    Time: 3 DayEarlier

wchao37 Post time: 2018-12-9 04:10
That's exactly what I said, and China doesn't even need to enact any national laws to deal with it ...

I have a gut feeling that there is someone else making decisions in the US. This person is not known to the world for now. This person is the strategist. He is trying to sabotage China economically and politically and reduce China to ashes so that US can resume the leading position in the world.
Author: wchao37    Time: 3 DayEarlier

GhostBuster Post time: 2018-12-9 14:19
When one is the most powerful and second to none, the rest has to remain silent and obey!
This is  ...

Not true, GB.

It really comes to whether you truly have the will to resist.

I don't see the will and that worries me.

The ongoing logic seems to be that "Why spoil such good scenery?  The main trend is good and we have nothing to fear in the long run."

If the short run is too bad, the long run is going to be gravely affected.


Author: Jaaja    Time: 3 DayEarlier

wchao37 Post time: 2018-12-9 03:40
Your arguments are stale as usual, and it seems the only thing you are good at doing is quoting fr ...
told us you're not a native English speaker, but you reside in the States


No I don't.

why are you rejoicing over the possibility that Huawei might have some difficulty in getting Anglo nations to adopt the 5G platform, as is evidenced by your "bye-bye" comment above?


I have no problem with Huawei taking market share in the west, proided that they indeed do not report to the Chinese government as much as is alleged (by US in particular). But you yourself are preaching that Huawei is strongly backed that very government, so it is you who is causing the "bye-bye".

What I am hoping for, is that your kind would shut up so that wouldn't happen.


Author: Jaaja    Time: 3 DayEarlier

huaqiao Post time: 2018-12-9 14:25
In a similar vein, Meng would not have been charged if US had not such unjust sanctions. You can ...
but I am more interested in whether the sanctions (or any law) is just and fair


ACtually under the charges that were maded public, the alleged crime isn't even directly related to the sanctions being there or not.

If a private financial institution you borrow money from asks about your affiliations, they are entitled to know the trust. It doesn't matter if a government behind that bank has some sanctions in place against anything or not.

Banks can have even their own policies about who they borrows money to. If you lie to get the money, you commit a fraud.

I'd suggest dropping the whole sanctions detail out of the discussion, since the alleged crime does not depend on them.

Author: Liononthehunt    Time: 3 DayEarlier

wchao37 Post time: 2018-12-9 03:40
Your arguments are stale as usual, and it seems the only thing you are good at doing is quoting fr ...

This Finnish dude is not living in the US, he claims to be living somewhere in Yunan province, and making a living by taking advantage of poverty in one of his prior posts.
Author: Liononthehunt    Time: 3 DayEarlier

Jaaja Post time: 2018-12-9 18:23
ACtually under the charges that were maded public, the alleged crime isn't even directly related ...

For once you are right stating that the allegations are irrelevant, the US would pick fault with Huawei no matter what it does, to stymie the telecom giant's endeavor at advancing its 5G technology.
Author: wchao37    Time: 3 DayEarlier

The following was what I wrote in August, 2018 in the thread "The evil root of all instability in the world" --

Politics, not the bilateral trade imbalance, is what's at stake here.

That's why there is no need to negotiate with him.

Even the appearance of going to Washington at his invitation is counter-productive for China.

The public wouldn't see the small print about the words "at his invitation.."

All the world would see is that the Chinese are going to Washington and not the other way round, so they figure that the Chinese are the ones giving up on the situation and thus eager to negotiate.

That's why I say there is no need for China to send anybody anywhere to meet the untrustworthy real-estate man.

The chief reason is that the Beijingers, in their capacity as reasonable statesmen, want to have win-win outcomes in negotiations, but her counterpart in Washington only wants to hurt China badly even at the expense of hurting itself, and if even the mainstream American media (for a change as far as Western media goes) reveals the truth and condemns the real-estate man, he would just tweet that news against him are all fake and that other than he and his ilk, no other Americans could plausibly be patriots.

What he wants is not "American First," but his brand of "American rednecks and Z's first."  No one else matters.

So how can China negotiate with such a man, who had proven by his faithless action on May 3, 2018 that even signed agreements by him to avert the Sino-U.S. trade war are totally worthless?
Author: Jaaja    Time: 3 DayEarlier

Liononthehunt Post time: 2018-12-9 19:38
For once you are right stating that the allegations are irrelevant, the US would pick fault with H ...
you are right stating that the allegations are irrelevant, the US would pick fault with Huawei no matter what it does


You are (intentionally, I hope) misinterpreting my comments.

I did not say that the allegiations (if you refer to US charges relevant to this case) are irrelevant. I said the sanctions that in some way haunt behind there are really irrelevant for this discussion.

The charges are specifically that Meng lied to a bank in order to get money. The bank is traded in New York Stock Exchange, and the fraud charges were filed in New York. That's very simple, and the lot of you are not even denying this fraud she is charged of.

Now, it may very well be that US is digging under every stone and rock for anything that they could throw at Huawei (or other Chinese enterprises), be it in name of this trade war or even some larger scheme.

But that's not very relevant. If they find something that they can throw, and in this case it seems they have found, China (and the Chinese mob) should focus on catching that rock instead of jabbering about the nature of that rock, or reasons why it was thrown.

The only pragmatic consideration of Chinese interest should be to clear Meng and Huawei of the charges, those being that she had lied to the bank about connection between Huawei and Skycom. None of you are doing that.

But this outpour of criticism from China and Chinese (toward wrong cause) has done much more damage (to Huawei and China) than even full release and pardoning of Meng can fix.

Author: cmknight    Time: 2 DayEarlier 01:42

GhostBuster Post time: 2018-12-9 14:17
For electronic tagging, the truth is the tag would be left to be worn by a dog, while she went sho ...

Canadian electronic monitoring bracelets/anklets cannot be removed except with specialized tools, by law enforcement officers.
Author: Liononthehunt    Time: 2 DayEarlier 13:49

Jaaja Post time: 2018-12-9 22:27
You are (intentionally, I hope) misinterpreting my comments.

I did not say that the allegiation ...
I did not say that the allegiations (if you refer to US charges relevant to this case) are irrelevant. I said the sanctions that in some way haunt behind there are really irrelevant for this discussion.


Why you always keep denying what you expressly stated?

The charges are specifically that Meng lied to a bank in order to get money. The bank is traded in New York Stock Exchange, and the fraud charges were filed in New York. That's very simple, and the lot of you are not even denying this fraud she is charged of.


Nobody in his or her right mind would recognize the US charges as valid at this very early stage, even if the US's accusation is legitimate, which usually is not.

The only pragmatic consideration of Chinese interest should be to clear Meng and Huawei of the charges, those being that she had lied to the bank about connection between Huawei and Skycom. None of you are doing that.


Scrapping the Iran deal unilaterally in itself is illegitimate, and a lot of companies, including those in the west, are dealing with Iran business in ways the US alleges Huawei has done with Iran. So it's a farce to stir up this circus, targeting Ms. Meng of all people. You may not see it as a shame, but people who believe in integrity do.

But this outpour of criticism from China and Chinese (toward wrong cause) has done much more damage (to Huawei and China) than even full release and pardoning of Meng can fix.


This is flimflam. The world is not run by the US, and it's the US that has to clean up its act, and stop acting like a wayward brat in dealing with its peers.



Author: huaqiao    Time: 2 DayEarlier 14:34

Jaaja Post time: 2018-12-9 18:23
ACtually under the charges that were maded public, the alleged crime isn't even directly related ...
I'd suggest dropping the whole sanctions detail out of the discussion, since the alleged crime does not depend on them.


No, the sanctions started the whole thing. Without the sanctions, there would be no such issue at all.

If a private financial institution you borrow money from asks about your affiliations, they are entitled to know the trust. It doesn't matter if a government behind that bank has some sanctions in place against anything or not.


In business, there is a concept known as "entity". A registered entity is treated as separate from any other registered businesses. All those accusations and speculations has ignored this matter.
Author: huaqiao    Time: 2 DayEarlier 15:07

Jaaja Post time: 2018-12-9 22:27
You are (intentionally, I hope) misinterpreting my comments.

I did not say that the allegiation ...
The charges are specifically that Meng lied to a bank in order to get money. The bank is traded in New York Stock Exchange, and the fraud charges were filed in New York. That's very simple, and the lot of you are not even denying this fraud she is charged of.


That's because the source of the problem is not judicial or legal. The source of the problem is US' mafia style of dealing with China. US cannot just make a sanction or law and force it upon other countries.

But that's not very relevant. If they find something that they can throw, and in this case it seems they have found, China (and the Chinese mob) should focus on catching that rock instead of jabbering about the nature of that rock, or reasons why it was thrown.


Anyone knows the better way is to prevent or stop the rock from being thrown at all in the first place.  What you suggest here is to ignore the source of the problem and even throw a smoke screen over it with the legal aspect.

Author: huaqiao    Time: 2 DayEarlier 15:14

Jaaja Post time: 2018-12-9 22:27
You are (intentionally, I hope) misinterpreting my comments.

I did not say that the allegiation ...
The charges are specifically that Meng lied to a bank in order to get money. The bank is traded in New York Stock Exchange, and the fraud charges were filed in New York. That's very simple, and the lot of you are not even denying this fraud she is charged of.


That's because the source of the problem is not judicial or legal. The source of the problem is US' mafia style of dealing with China. US cannot just make a sanction or law and force it upon other countries.

But that's not very relevant. If they find something that they can throw, and in this case it seems they have found, China (and the Chinese mob) should focus on catching that rock instead of jabbering about the nature of that rock, or reasons why it was thrown.


Anyone knows the better way is to prevent or stop the rock from being thrown at all in the first place.  What you suggest here is to ignore the source of the problem and even throw a smoke screen over it with the legal aspect.

Author: Jaaja    Time: 2 DayEarlier 15:45

huaqiao Post time: 2018-12-10 14:34
No, the sanctions started the whole thing. Without the sanctions, there would be no such issue a ...
In business, there is a concept known as "entity". A registered entity is treated as separate from any other registered businesses.


No it is not, if one entity has control over the other. That's the core issue here - were Huawei and Skycom really separate or not. US claims they were not separate.


Author: Jaaja    Time: 2 DayEarlier 16:05

Liononthehunt Post time: 2018-12-10 13:49
Why you always keep denying what you expressly stated?

Apparently because you can't comprehend, if I state something.

I wrote: "alleged crime isn't even directly related to the sanctions".

You interpeted: " the allegations are irrelevant"

If Meng lied to the bank to get money, that is a punishable fraud regardless of any sanctions being there or not, or trade war being there or not. That's what I mean by the sanctions being irrelevant.

Maybe US prosecutors would have let it go uninvestigated without the sanctions against Iran, or the trade war with China, but it would have been a fraud anyway.

In that case it would have been up to the bank to file charges against the fraudulent customer, if they wanted. But without sanctions, as long as customer is trusted to  pay back the money (with interest), the bank wouldn't bother.

The sanctions however are there, which forces the bank's hands to act if they know about the fraud, otherwise they become accomplices to the crime under US law.

Nobody in his or her right mind would recognize the US charges as valid at this very early stage,


The charges have followed valid legal procedure in both USA and Canada. That makes the charges valid.

Charges can be vaiid withoiut the target of those charges being ever found guilty.

You should remember that it's not China there, and being charged with a crime and being arrested for investigation and trial does not make anyone guilty there.

It has been said about China that 99% of all suspects are found guilty, and that's why Chinese authorities are now, as we speak, checking old cases and retrialing if mistakes or abuse of legal system is found - and such has been found.

Charges remain that Meng committed a fraud, and that needs to be investigated. Otherwise more frauds will take place, and Chinese banks may become victim of such as much as any other banks.

Author: huaqiao    Time: 2 DayEarlier 16:14

The charges are specifically that Meng lied to a bank in order to get money. The bank is traded in New York Stock Exchange, and the fraud charges were filed in New York. That's very simple, and the lot of you are not even denying this fraud she is charged of.


That's because the source of the problem is not judicial or legal. The source of the problem is US' mafia style of dealing with China. US cannot just make a sanction or law and force it upon other countries.

But that's not very relevant. If they find something that they can throw, and in this case it seems they have found, China (and the Chinese mob) should focus on catching that rock instead of jabbering about the nature of that rock, or reasons why it was thrown.


Anyone knows the better way is to prevent or stop the rock from being thrown at all in the first place.  What you suggest here is to ignore the source of the problem and even throw a smoke screen over it with the legal aspect.

Author: huaqiao    Time: 2 DayEarlier 16:58

The charges are specifically that Meng lied to a bank in order to get money. The bank is traded in New York Stock Exchange, and the fraud charges were filed in New York. That's very simple, and the lot of you are not even denying this fraud she is charged of.


That's because the source of the problem is not judicial or legal. The source of the problem is US' mafia style of dealing with China. US cannot just make a sanction or law and force it upon other countries.

But that's not very relevant. If they find something that they can throw, and in this case it seems they have found, China (and the Chinese mob) should focus on catching that rock instead of jabbering about the nature of that rock, or reasons why it was thrown.


Anyone knows the better way is to prevent or stop the rock from being thrown at all in the first place.  What you suggest here is to ignore the source of the problem and even throw a smoke screen over it with the legal aspect.

Author: Jaaja    Time: 2 DayEarlier 18:35

huaqiao Post time: 2018-12-10 16:58
That's because the source of the problem is not judicial or legal. The source of the problem is US ...
That's because the source of the problem is not judicial or legal. The source of the problem is US' mafia style of dealing with China. US cannot just make a sanction or law and force it upon other countries..


In this case USA is not trying to force their laws upon other countries, but to their own.

This problem would not exist, if Meng had got the money from People's Bank of China, or DPRK, or whatever third-world country that is friendlier toward China and has no presence in USA.

But she didn't, and instead went to a British bank that is traded in New York Stock Exchange. If the alleged fraud is true, what was she thinking?

The bank denies accomplicing in this willingly, and therefore eyes are on Meng's alleged fraud toward the bank.

If she is innocent, then she has no worries because the burden of producing evidence is on US prosecutors.

But again, it is the Chinese mob that has done enough damage to reputation of the country and Chiinese businessess with foreign aspirations neverthless.

Anyone knows the better way is to prevent or stop the rock from being thrown at all in the first place.


Yes, so why did Meng or Huawei go to that bank? Unfortunately we still cannot travel back in time. If we did, we could tell her to not commit a fraud, or go do it in somewhere else.

Then the rock wouldn't even exist, must less be thrown.


Author: zhiran    Time: 2 DayEarlier 20:10

wchao37 Post time: 2018-12-9 03:40
Your arguments are stale as usual, and it seems the only thing you are good at doing is quoting fr ...

Why are you so upset that Hussein’s tech is being banned from the core of western countries telecoms architecture?

Answer the following question and you will realize just how ironic and hypocritical it is to hold such a position - when has or when will China allow western developed technology to be placed at the heart of China’s telecom infrastructure?

I’ll five you a clue. The answer is it never has (foreign companies have been banned from that industry segment for years in China) and in future, the answer is it never will happen.


The reason why? National security. A simple and accepted answer by all parties.

But when foreign countries do the same to a Chinese tech company  what is the Chinese government (and your response)? It’s a dastardly evil anti-China plot to stop the rise of a Chinese tech giant.

Get over yourselves ....
Author: GhostBuster    Time: 2 DayEarlier 21:03

huaqiao Post time: 2018-12-9 14:30
I do not think China is rogue like the US. I was just making a hypothesis. US is like the Mafia no ...

In 1949, US called People's Republic of China - A COMMUNIST STATE!
Problem is Russia and China are two states that US does not like at all!
Unfortunately, they exist and US has no choice but to live with them. US could move to another place call US.
So, US will INFLICT ALL HARM to Russia and China at all cost or face its own course of extermination!
THERE IS NOTHING WITH THAT.
Unfortunately, NATURE ABHORES IT!
Author: Liononthehunt    Time: 2 DayEarlier 21:03

Jaaja Post time: 2018-12-10 16:05
Apparently because you can't comprehend, if I state something.

I wrote: "alleged crime isn't even ...
Apparently because you can't comprehend, if I state something.


That's because you need to work on your English. And your posts are usually verbose and vacuous.

If Meng lied to the bank to get money, that is a punishable fraud regardless of any sanctions being there or not, or trade war being there or not. That's what I mean by the sanctions being irrelevant.

Maybe US prosecutors would have let it go uninvestigated without the sanctions against Iran, or the trade war with China, but it would have been a fraud anyway.


No evidence so far has been presented to incriminate Ms. Meng, who apparently is unfairly targeted, and loads of western companies are engaging Iran in business deals behind the US's back as a result of the US sudden pullout of the Iran deal, but the US just chooses to turn a blind eye to it.
Moreover, in the case of strife between legal entities, it is unprecedented that individuals are targeted, so it goes without saying that the US and its button man Canada are deliberately making a splash in attempt to put Huawei on the ropes in a futile effort to stem its progress in 5G development.

The charges have followed valid legal procedure in both USA and Canada. That makes the charges valid.


On the contrary, if there is anything involving the hegemonic US and its flunky Canada, chances are it is invalid.
Author: gork    Time: Yesterday 03:12

Emmanuel Macron Under Siege Too

Europe’s effort at building a “special purpose vehicle” (SPV) to help European companies evade US sanctions is evidence of this danger. Recent comments from the French foreign minister hinted at a broader campaign for the SPV to undercut US influence.
- Will Iran’s oil exports fall to zero?

President Macron of France has just suggested that Europe build its own military in order to protect itself from the U.S., China and Russia.
- Napoleon Reborn: We Need A "European Empire" To Challenge US And China, French Minister Says

Marshal Philippe Petain's name appears alongside seven other top military chiefs to be honored this Saturday in a ceremony at the Invalides monument, site of Napoleon's tomb, to mark the centenary of the end of World War 1.
- Macron praises WWI general who later collaborated with Nazis

Hence: The American-led world system is experiencing setbacks at every turn. The struggle between the Western elites seems to be reaching a boil, with Frau Merkel ever more isolated and seeing her 14-year political dominance as chancellor petering out. Macron seems to be vying for the honor of being the most unpopular French leader in history, provoking violent protests that have lasted now for weeks, involving every sector of the population. Macron will probably be able to survive this political storm, but his political future looks dire.
- Seven Days Of Failures For The American Empire
Author: huaqiao    Time: Yesterday 13:58

Jaaja Post time: 2018-12-10 15:45
No it is not, if one entity has control over the other. That's the core issue here - were Huawei ...
No it is not, if one entity has control over the other. That's the core issue here - were Huawei and Skycom really separate or not. US claims they were not separate.


Many businesses do have subsidiaries which are registered as separate entities. This is normal business practice especially for multinationals going global. The reason behind this is to limit losses and legal penalties. The reason why Skycom and Huawei is linked together by the US is because US is trying to find a fault, whatever it takes, to pin down Huawei. It is obvious, very obvious, and sneaky.
Author: huaqiao    Time: Yesterday 14:06

Jaaja Post time: 2018-12-10 18:35
In this case USA is not trying to force their laws upon other countries, but to their own.

Thi ...
Yes, so why did Meng or Huawei go to that bank? Unfortunately we still cannot travel back in time. If we did, we could tell her to not commit a fraud, or go do it in somewhere else.

Then the rock wouldn't even exist, must less be thrown.


If US does not raise the sanction, all these that you mention above would not have been an issue at all. The source of the problem is the unreasonable sanction by the US. It is enforcing ones law over others by force.
Author: huaqiao    Time: Yesterday 14:17

zhiran Post time: 2018-12-10 20:10
Why are you so upset that Hussein’s tech is being banned from the core of western countries telec ...
But when foreign countries do the same to a Chinese tech company  what is the Chinese government (and your response)? It’s a dastardly evil anti-China plot to stop the rise of a Chinese tech giant.


It is not about rejecting Huawei for national security reasons by other countries. It is about timing the arrest of Meng because of an unfair sanction raised by US to force a deal out of China. Get that right first.
Author: huaqiao    Time: Yesterday 14:21

GhostBuster Post time: 2018-12-10 21:03
In 1949, US called People's Republic of China - A COMMUNIST STATE!
Problem is Russia and China are ...

After WW2, the western propaganda has created this Cold War and demonised Communism to the extent where the word "Communism" is associated with something "evil". If you read comments of anti-China trolls, they always base their argument on this false assumption whenever they run out of reasons to argue with.
Author: Jaaja    Time: Yesterday 16:40

huaqiao Post time: 2018-12-11 14:06
If US does not raise the sanction, all these that you mention above would not have been an issue ...
If US does not raise the sanction, all these that you mention above would not have been an issue at all.


That's a very Chinese view - a crime is not a crime unless it gets enough attention so that the authorities are forced to act.

Even if there were no formal sanctions against Iran, or no trade war with China, I'm convinced that US interests (toward/against both Iran and China) would have been to pursue this course of action regardless. The alleged crime of Meng is same whether there were sanctions or not.

It is same as a random Chinese official fleeing the country with the people's money. It was going on for long time, and nobody cared until quite recently. But it was against law anyway, even if nobody pursued legal actions. Only when state interests for social stablity created the need to start punishing these officials, did something start to happen.


Author: Liononthehunt    Time: Yesterday 18:47

Jaaja Post time: 2018-12-11 16:40
That's a very Chinese view - a crime is not a crime unless it gets enough attention so that the  ...
That's a very Chinese view - a crime is not a crime unless it gets enough attention so that the authorities are forced to act.


How did you come to this ridiculously far-fetched conclusion? What stuff are you smoking, dude?
All this circus raised by the US revolves around its sanction against Iran, which is illegitimate in itself.

Even if there were no formal sanctions against Iran, or no trade war with China, I'm convinced that US interests (toward/against both Iran and China) would have been to pursue this course of action regardless. The alleged crime of Meng is same whether there were sanctions or not.


You know nothing about your big brother. Even after CIA has openly accused a prince of ordering the murder of a journalist working for a US paper, the US still refuses to either condemn the perpetrator or launch sanctions against the country where the culprit is set to take the helm. The US rarely acts on moral and genuinely legal grounds, as evidenced by numerous cases, including the one involving Ms. Meng.

It is same as a random Chinese official fleeing the country with the people's money. It was going on for long time, and nobody cared until quite recently.


How did know that China had not pursued justice against the crooked officals in the past? The work has been underway all along, but you are just too hellbent on lying to acknowledge it.




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